It's an old Beast Wars joke.
it isn't that old.... *goes and sits down to rest his arthritis filled typing fingers*
I know. But it gets tossed around with the implication that it's inherently better than not having diecast and/or the complaint that it doesn't show up in modern products. Which it does. Not mainline, no, but it's still very much used in modern Transformers today.
Just that expecting a toy in a retail line to have to it is a bit ridiculous. G1 Prime is supposed to mimic the original figure, but add joints ala Missing Link, but has to do it at a modern retail line budget. So that means both a hollow chest/truck cab and plastic construction.
So ofc it's gonna feel light. I don't think that's a mark against the toy. Just a reality of concept and budgets coming together. If you want an articulated figure based on G1 Prime and don't want to or can't spring for the ML release then this is the option. And I don't think it appears "too cheap" given both the reality of budgets and the idea the designers were going for.
anybody who earnestly complains about modern mass retail toys not having diecast aren't worth engaging tbh
Eh, I think it was a harmless enough "making a reference" joke. I don't think the original post was demanding die cast either.
It's an understandable response; even before comparing the figure to Missing Link it's somewhat surprisingly short and light. I almost wrote "counterintuitively" rather than surprisingly, but realized this is essentially our first US mainline foray into this very specific sort of thing and so there aren't really any prior cases to set expectations by.
(Has Mark or anyone said yet how this is situated chronologically in the planning vis-a-vis the Missing Link line? Was it two sides having the same cool "something soecialnfor the 40th" idea at the same time, or Hasbro deciding to produce a mainline priced option, etc?)
The size disparity, I agree, is somewhat disappointing, especially given there are Deluxes of comparative complexity and articulation (and with similar accessories) that are at least taller. But I think the figure does what it's meant to do, even if it looks better as a standalone piece rather than next to other releases in the line.
(Actually it doesn't necessarily look bad next to them either; the height variance plays well into the "coming from different universes" bit, and strengthens the "same but different" vibe next to, say, Earthrise Op. )
It's an understandable response; even before comparing the figure to Missing Link it's somewhat surprisingly short and light. I almost wrote "counterintuitively" rather than surprisingly, but realized this is essentially our first US mainline foray into this very specific sort of thing and so there aren't really any prior cases to set expectations by.
(Has Mark or anyone said yet how this is situated chronologically in the planning vis-a-vis the Missing Link line? Was it two sides having the same cool "something soecialnfor the 40th" idea at the same time, or Hasbro deciding to produce a mainline priced option, etc?)
The size disparity, I agree, is somewhat disappointing, especially given there are Deluxes of comparative complexity and articulation (and with similar accessories) that are at least taller. But I think the figure does what it's meant to do, even if it looks better as a standalone piece rather than next to other releases in the line.
(Actually it doesn't necessarily look bad next to them either; the height variance plays well into the "coming from different universes" bit, and strengthens the "same but different" vibe next to, say, Earthrise Op. )
IIRC both Hasbro and TT came to the ideas independently but given the pipeline for these things both sides have known about the other project for a while and so both are just doing their thing for the anniversary.
I think it was stated that it was designed to be the size it is to go with the ER trailer, that being the most recent "toy-centric" trailer on the market (the SS '86 trailer is very specifically animation accurate).
That's a bit frustrating then. I could've done without that integration if it meant a more substantial cab Op.
I could have done without that integration too since I skipped ER Prime and I'm certainly not going to track one down now just to get the worst part.
And I HAVE the Earthrise Op and the pairing does nothing for me.
Honestly i wouldn't mind if Hasbro just abandoned G1 Op trailers altogether and focused on putting the whole budget into the cab. Leave the box to the third parties to deck out.
The only third party still semi-regularly doing upgrade kits is DNA, and their stuff is a total coin toss. It might be overthought garbage or absolute brilliance.
Meh, someone's gonna take that up if the opportunity presents itself. At least the trailer's still someone else's problem. It's just such an unnecessary budget complication at this point. (And it seems like an easy enough thing for them to engineer and produce and sell for way more than it's worth once the need is there. And if cost is too high or demand for it is too low to justify them making it, well, that just proves that Hasbro shouldn't bother either.)
Now if it were Armada Prime's trailer, or Rodimus', that's something that arguably should always be part of the main release. But the long gray box with minicar (sometimes) seems like something that just isn't a feasible ask at main retail price points, and so much gets compromised to make it happen at all that it ends up pleasing fewer than it should anyway (I didn't mind either ER or SS trailers, but I can see why some might feel underwhelmed, and boy I've certainly heard enough of that). Spend the money on something better. The Classics Voyager was a solid mold and the trailer wasn't missed; those who DID miss it eventually had ones they could get. And the field is fuller now.
Now if it were Armada Prime's trailer, or Rodimus', that's something that arguably should always be part of the main release. But the long gray box with minicar (sometimes) seems like something that just isn't a feasible ask at main retail price points, and so much gets compromised to make it happen at all that it ends up pleasing fewer than it should anyway (I didn't mind either ER or SS trailers, but I can see why some might feel underwhelmed, and boy I've certainly heard enough of that). Spend the money on something better. The Classics Voyager was a solid mold and the trailer wasn't missed; those who DID miss it eventually had ones they could get. And the field is fuller now.
I'd rather it not be.
I used to be on board with ditching the trailer but ER actually got me into the idea.
Yeah it doesn't do much, but there's something nostalgically awesome about Prime pulling a trailer and I'd rather have it with the figure I'm putting $50+ down on then having it be an overpriced add-on from a "third party" company.
I'm sorry I just don't agree with that take.
I have ER Prime and he's pretty much perfect IMO. I can't think of what would have been added to the figure if you took out the trailer.
Likewise SS '86 Optimus looks like a major accomplishment of engineering on his own, and I'm not sure what ditching the trailer would improve on it.
When the last two takes on G1 Optimus have been pretty great figures in their own right AND came with a trailer then I'm not sure the trailer is that much of a millstone.
It seems to me like you're projecting your frustrations with the decision to scale the "G1 Universe" Optimus with the ER trailer onto the trailer itself but it's a line of reasoning I'm not following. It's a recent-ish release of a Prime trailer, the most recent with the toy deco.
It makes sense that Hasbro's likewise retail release of a figure modelled after Optimus' G1 toy would be compatible. They'd even get flack if it wasn't.
Again, this is a figure that is trying to mimic the G1 toy- hence hollowness- and be priced for retail- hence plastic construction with no diecast. It's gonna feel light, and the size allows for more integration with existing product out there, which will- in theory- incentivize people to pick it up.
tl;dr? trailer slander isn't cool my guys, gals, and non-binary pals.
Nah man. I can see how you got there, but I am reacting to two separate things separately. The combination is indeed confusing, I agree, so let's not go there.
Legacy Op is small, I don't agree it was worth going for that to match this trailer, done. I agree they'd get flak if it didn't match it, but let's be real, they're getting flak now that it does because it results in a smaller Op than we could have apparently gotten.
Now the trailer itself, and the notion of pack-in G1 Op trailers below the more luxurious Commander price point (Commander seems like the, heh, optimal price point to get an effective cab and a trailer that checks all the boxes). And getting flak.
Like I said, I was fine with the ER trailer, it did the job well enough. Sure, no Roller, but it had the internal drone arm whatever guy, that's not bad.
But when Hasbro does go the extra mile to make a trailer just to complete the package, it gets subjected to enough budgetary compromises that the end result is going to be complained about (I mean, EVERYTHING is going to be complained about, this just inevitably becomes an easier target). It's too small. Not enough paint. Where's Roller. Why isn't it filled with money. For real I've had to put up with geniuses whining about why a Prime with trailer is a Leader class figure, as if the trailer were free to produce.
And ER Op is not a mold we've really seen sold on its own so it's hard to tell if it's a Voyager by itself with a big accessory (the Studio Series 2007/DOTM Op was sold as a Voyager solo), or the entire package is one budgeted bundle. But it's looking like the trailer just gets what's left of the budget and that's where all the cuts get made; it's not a millstone so much as... Leftovers? Leaving aside the trailer we might have gotten a bigger parts count for the cab Op, different proportions, no weird reused and glued Siege legs, accessories you didn't have to buy with a Selects figure, maybe some more height, and so on.
I don't mind what we got (I mostly shrug at it... It's just okay). I'm just tired of the thankless effort to produce something that's doomed to fall short of the mark anyway. As I alluded to, this was one of the things talked about with the Classics Op-- no trailer, trailer would have bumped it up a full size class, and so on. But a decade and a half later we're at a production economics point where even going up a size class results in a trailer that's pretty limited.
I'm just over it, I guess, especially since for space and storage it does become a millstone; if people can't live without one with all the bells and whistles, let them put their money where their mouth is.
(Tbh what I'm really sick of isn't trailers, it's fans complaining about trailers. DamnScots fans, you ruined Scotland trailers.)
Legacy Op is small, I don't agree it was worth going for that to match this trailer, done. I agree they'd get flak if it didn't match it, but let's be real, they're getting flak now that it does because it results in a smaller Op than we could have apparently gotten.
Now the trailer itself, and the notion of pack-in G1 Op trailers below the more luxurious Commander price point (Commander seems like the, heh, optimal price point to get an effective cab and a trailer that checks all the boxes). And getting flak.
Like I said, I was fine with the ER trailer, it did the job well enough. Sure, no Roller, but it had the internal drone arm whatever guy, that's not bad.
But when Hasbro does go the extra mile to make a trailer just to complete the package, it gets subjected to enough budgetary compromises that the end result is going to be complained about (I mean, EVERYTHING is going to be complained about, this just inevitably becomes an easier target). It's too small. Not enough paint. Where's Roller. Why isn't it filled with money. For real I've had to put up with geniuses whining about why a Prime with trailer is a Leader class figure, as if the trailer were free to produce.
And ER Op is not a mold we've really seen sold on its own so it's hard to tell if it's a Voyager by itself with a big accessory (the Studio Series 2007/DOTM Op was sold as a Voyager solo), or the entire package is one budgeted bundle. But it's looking like the trailer just gets what's left of the budget and that's where all the cuts get made; it's not a millstone so much as... Leftovers? Leaving aside the trailer we might have gotten a bigger parts count for the cab Op, different proportions, no weird reused and glued Siege legs, accessories you didn't have to buy with a Selects figure, maybe some more height, and so on.
I don't mind what we got (I mostly shrug at it... It's just okay). I'm just tired of the thankless effort to produce something that's doomed to fall short of the mark anyway. As I alluded to, this was one of the things talked about with the Classics Op-- no trailer, trailer would have bumped it up a full size class, and so on. But a decade and a half later we're at a production economics point where even going up a size class results in a trailer that's pretty limited.
I'm just over it, I guess, especially since for space and storage it does become a millstone; if people can't live without one with all the bells and whistles, let them put their money where their mouth is.
(Tbh what I'm really sick of isn't trailers, it's fans complaining about trailers. Damn
It's just that, because of the smaller size, this figure doesn't really GO with anything else. Obviously they couldn't do a "G1" sized figure and then have a properly sized trailer for a Leader price point, and we're getting a SS86 Commander so that's out, so here's my potential compromise: Sell the trailer separately...with a (slightly simple) deluxe, transforming Roller. It's almost a titanmaster type of solution, and he can either ride inside it or pull the trailer himself if ppl decide not to get the Optimus.
That might actually be a fun accessory pack. It'd even provide a container. (It'd even be perfect for a closed/windowless Selects box.)
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It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. One of my favourite wiki gags was the caption they tossed on the Hasbro release of the first MP Starscream; "The fandom rejoiced... and then complained."
I remember a lot of complaining back when Voyager Classics Prime came out because he didn't come with a trailer. People explained he'd have to be a Leader class if he did, and the people complaining insisted that they'd pay it.
Fast-forward to ER, and they release a Voyager-sized OP figure with more articulation and a more involved transformation than the Classics mould, with a trailer, plus a removable Matrix, and what do fans complain about? The trailer.
I promise you that once SS '86 OP gets more proliferation into the wild people will be snarking at the trailer too.
Fans want the trailer until they get it. Then it's a useless box that doesn't do anything.
Fact is that G1 Optimus' trailer was the least involved of the "Convoy" inspired trailer pieces that would become the norm in G1 in both the West and Japan. It's modelled after an IRL tractor trailer, so it's just a box. It has a repair bay inside. That's what it is. If anyone's asking for a G1 Prime-inspired figure to come with a trailer... that's what you're getting. ER, SS, any of the MPs... that trailer is what it is. Even the third party option for Classics Prime back in the day didn't do much, aside from that neat mirror trick that I'm pretty sure everyone who had it did once and never again.
This is less directed at you ofc- I think we're both annoyed by the same people and behaviour.
It's just that I'd rather keep the trailer and let the complaining fade into the background. 'cause I know that the complaining would still be there even if they stopped making trailers entirely.
This doesn't annoy me so much because it's not like there's a line of anything for it to "go" with. It's not like Hasbro has their own dedicated "ML" style line of G1 designs with joints that this OP is out of scale with. He's kind of an oddball in the line, and so I'm fine with him at the size he is.
I feel like reducing everything down to a generic "fans say" then of course things are going to sound contradictory. The fandom is not a monolith: Some people want things to line up exactly how they were in G1, while others don't care about their Prime figure coming with a big box and just see it as an added expense.
True enough, but I've been in the fandom since I hoped on the internet looking for info about RiD '01, and I feel like I've been around long enough to notice general trends.
"Why doesn't Optimus come with a trailer?" was a pretty loud complaint during the Classics run.
"Why does Optimus come with this box that doesn't do anything?" was a pretty loud complaint during ER.
Does this mean it's the same people? No it doesn't, but I'd bet dollars to donuts there's more overlap than you'd think. There are people in this world, regardless of interests or hobbies, who love to complain.
Personally? I don't see the point to any of it. Classics came around when I didn't care about the trailer but by the time ER did I was starting to feel nostalgic for my G2 Prime and setting that thing up with my buddies. So short of giving me a voice box ER hit at the right time for me.
So maybe I got lucky in that all of these no trailer/yes trailer decisions by Hasbro lined up with my preferences at the time, or maybe I'm just an easy going guy. I donno, honestly.
In the here and now though, I'd rather the trailer be a thing than not. Again, I love ER Prime. And while SS '86 Prime isn't my personal cup of tea I can admire it for what it is and does. So I don't think we as fans are missing out by the trailer's inclusion.
If you want it, it's there. If not? Storage is a thing. Toss it in a drawer.
this is why we need to move away from g1. start fresh with a new leader.