Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[Pale Rider]

Israelis blame gov’t for Hamas massacre, say Netanyahu must resign - poll

An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.

www.jpost.com

 

[MrBlud]

They aren’t wrong.

 

[Teufel]

Speaking of the paragliders, some university student groups, pro-Palestinian protests, and BLM chapters across the US have adopted it as something of a solidarity symbol. Hamas used these paragliders to cross into Israel, reach a dance festival, and then murder 260+ civilians and kidnap others. Zero ambiguity of what they're endorsing.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711780234305876349

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711815885067882862

And a CNBC reporter driving through DC noticed a pro-Palestinian protest... outside the Capital Jewish Museum. Because anti-Zionism something something.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712631506726789285

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

I may as well link to Rebecca Schoenkopf's editorial on Yr Wonkette. There used to be a running gag about comments not being allowed on that site, but she's had to lock down some threads, and she gave her reasons why....

 

[Thylacine 2000]

They aren’t wrong.

Technologically, the Iran/Hamas attack plan was highly sophisticated.

Strategically, it would never have worked until this year.

Netanyahu hexed together a government of criminals, terrorist sympathizers, and Internet trolls, who had no interests or skills other than cancelling the investigations into their own crimes, forcing gender segregation into secular liberal areas, and whipping up arson in the West Bank. Skilled workers resigned, 10,000+ military reservists refused to serve, society was torn apart, and the army had to get redirected into managing hate crimes and protests. I knew they were going to hug something up. All they had to do was watch Gaza. It was not an "intelligence failure," it was a leadership failure. They have ruined everything. Everything. One year ago - the election was Nov. 1, 2022 - Israel was more powerful, safe, and successful than I had ever imagined possible, and since then they have ruined everything.

 

[Pocket]

And it's a testament to the integrity of the country's citizenry that his policies resulted in such backlash. Both the protests and resignations immediately following his reelection and that new poll. See that, America? That's how you respond to one of the worst people on the planet somehow becoming your leader! Granted, it'd be nice if someone that unpopular hadn't managed to win in the first place, but I'm sure they'll get right to fixing that after they've deposed the guy.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

My boss is from Palestine. His parents are in Gaza City so he's most certainly very worried about them. He's never expressed and support for Hamas and hasn't condoned their actions now.

Anyway, this is an interesting piece of history about my own country. On the same day, I also found out that we also made South-East Asians overweight/prone to diabetes too...

 

[Pale Rider]

Israeli President Suggests That Civilians In Gaza Are Legitimate Targets

“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Isaac Herzog said as Israel ordered 1.1 million Palestinians to evacuate their homes.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Ungnome]

The Israelis and the Palestinians BOTH deserve better leadership.... You don't fight atrocities by committing more atrocities. Does the current far right party in charge in Israel want to create another generation of Muslim extremists because painting every Palestinian as a Hamas collaborator is exactly how you do it.

 

[Wheelimus]

I just don't see an endgame for Israel that doesn't include a full ground invasion and then reoccupying of the territory to insure that this kind of assault never happens again. It's sad to say that but I think it's the way it has to be. A lot of people are going to die on both sides before this is over.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Israeli President Suggests That Civilians In Gaza Are Legitimate Targets

“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Isaac Herzog said as Israel ordered 1.1 million Palestinians to evacuate their homes.

www.huffpost.com

When a reporter asked Herzog to clarify whether he meant to say that since Gazans did not remove Hamas from power “that makes them, by implication, legitimate targets,” the Israeli president claimed, “No, I didn’t say that.” But he then stated: “When you have a missile in your goddamn kitchen and you want to shoot it at me, am I allowed to defend myself?”

It sounded like he realized he shouldn't have said it and tried to backtrack.

The video is more emotionally raw than the text - more "this guy is not making a point, he took a break from officiating at funerals and is now SCREAMING at reporters," especially if you've been following Herzog's career and heard him speak before. He's always been calm and measured.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/herzo...mas-terrorists-and-downplaying-terror-threat/

 

[CoffeeHorse]

At some point it's inappropriate to be calm.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

I just don't see an endgame for Israel that doesn't include a full ground invasion and then reoccupying of the territory to insure that this kind of assault never happens again. It's sad to say that but I think it's the way it has to be. A lot of people are going to die on both sides before this is over.

I respectfully disagree. There's no need to fight fire with fire, especially as both sides have/will lose many innocent civilians. My boss was on the phone yesterday, trying to find out if his parents can flee Gaza City or if they're even alive and well. It must be awful for his family and him now and certainly NOT "the way it has to be".

 

[Dekafox]

I just don't see an endgame for Israel that doesn't include a full ground invasion and then reoccupying of the territory to insure that this kind of assault never happens again. It's sad to say that but I think it's the way it has to be. A lot of people are going to die on both sides before this is over.

My question here is would it stop it happening again? I don't see any real way out myself, I'll admit, but what's to stop a displaced Hamas from launching similar attacks from, say, Lebanon like was rumored earlier in the thread(before being debunked)? If it's just due to the message the occupation sends, that relies on the other side being a rational actor with something to lose, which wouldn't be the case for them anymore. Though arguably the way they acted, I suppose they were either already at that point, or stood to lose more from things NOT going up like a firecracker... and I think its likely the latter case, given the rumors of Iran pressure on them and how many this whole mess is gonna radicalize and send straight into their recruitment offices(or the equivalent)

It's almost a certainty what you described will happen regardless from the events already set in motion, so it may be a moot point, but I don't think that'll be the end of this by a long shot. Hopefully the whole thing at least won't spiral out into a repeat of the earlier Israeli wars post-WW2.

 

[Teufel]

"There is only one solution; intifadah, revolution" chants at the University of Washington yesterday

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712559636661080171

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712855028698845281

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712461278105547092

A few of us have mentioned Rasmea Odeh over the years and the support she enjoys from some on the left. She's a Palestinian who bombed a Jerusalem supermarket decades ago and killed Jews, which translated into becoming a hero in the US for some. It's really weird after years of gaslighting from her supporters that she was innocent or whatever for them just now be openly like "of course we supported what happened Saturday, didn't you realize it when we backed Rasmea?"

 

[Thylacine 2000]

The average age in Gaza is 18. They mostly have no memory of life before the current isolated conditions. They have mostly never even seen Israel. Their government textbooks teach them antisemitism. During the "Great March of Return" in 2018, Hamas bigwigs shouted at them that the Jews had abandoned Israel, the country was empty, charge in and take it - and they listened.

I can feel sorry for them.

Americans? Americans living in the wealthiest country ever, with a world's worth of education and free press available, diversity everywhere - who still choose to side with every genocidally violent act?

I will never forgive them.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Our universities really don't have a great track record on these things.

 

[Pale Rider]

I question their motives. How many of those idiots are sympathetic to the Palestinians from a humanitarian standpoint, and how many just reflexively do so because they're insufferable campists?

 

[MrBlud]

I would be shocked if even 20% attended a pro-Palestinian *anything* prior to this.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

My school owner just gave a speech about Palestine at our recent sports day event. He asked for us to think, pray and support our head teacher (who's Palestinian), for the people of Palestine and for a swift end to the situation.

Although they didn't mention Israel (for good reason), there didn't seem to be anything anti-semetic in their speech.

My head teacher hasn't ever said anything anti-semetic either and he's in his thirties.