Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[NovaSaber]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

Omar and Tlaib Are Condemned in the US for Saying What Prominent Israelis Are Saying

The White House is ripping Squad members for proposing de-escalation and diplomacy to stop the killing of Israelis and Palestinians.

www.thenation.com

Indeed, if American political and media elites are sincere when they say they are repulsed and sickened by criticisms of Israeli policies, and by measured statements calling for de-escalation strategies, then they would surely be shocked by conversations that have taken place inside Israel since October 7—because a number of high-profile Israelis have been making statements that sound a lot like those coming from Omar, Tlaib, and Sanders.

Consider Daniel Levy, a former Israeli peace negotiator and top adviser to former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, who told the BBC, “If anyone told me that what the militants did on the weekend was a legitimate response to years and years of occupation. I would say: ‘No, you’re wrong-headed. You’ve lost sight of humanity and reality.’ And if anyone tells me that what Israel is doing in Gaza today is a legitimate response to what happened on the weekend, it’s exactly the same.”

 

[Pale Rider]

FB friend:

I'm really getting tired of this "but atrocities are OK when our allies do them because they must have a good reason" argument that's all over the Internet like a rash right now.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Omar and Tlaib Are Condemned in the US for Saying What Prominent Israelis Are Saying

The White House is ripping Squad members for proposing de-escalation and diplomacy to stop the killing of Israelis and Palestinians.

www.thenation.com

In a few days Israelis went through what Palestinians have experienced as a matter of routine for decades

No. No, they really didn't. This was an Einsatzgruppen-level blood orgy of mass rape, infanticide, kidnapping, desecration of the dead, dragging cowering civilians out of a shelter to be slaughtered, and broadcasting snuff films of all that. I know about PLENTY of dark, criminal jive done by the Israeli army in combat and by random Israeli criminals. It isn't that.

The question of why people are snapping back so hard against Tlaib and Omar is a fair one. Their demand fit a ceasefire IMMEDIATELY, with no military option at all, strikes many as ridiculous. A lot of voices on the further Left discredited themselves pretty badly in the immediate aftermath. Tlaib was repeatedly pressed to condemn the sexual violence of Hamas and didn't, it was caught on camera, and I think people have just gotten tired of it.

A rift over Israel threatens the left’s fragile gains | Semafor

Groups like the Democratic Socialists of America are on the defensive as allies condemn activists celebrating the Hamas attack.

www.semafor.com

Israel is going to obliterate Hamas. Kill every trooper, collapse every tunnel, destroy all vehicles and materiel. I would earnestly prefer they could do that without an atrocious civilian death count. FWIW, the Gaza Strip is not the same thing as Gaza City and it is not the wall-to-wall congested urban space that you see on the news. There are plenty of low-density spaces where people could flee, if they can make it.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

No. No, they really didn't. This was an Einsatzgruppen-level blood orgy of mass rape, infanticide, kidnapping, desecration of the dead, dragging cowering civilians out of a shelter to be slaughtered, and broadcasting snuff films of all that. I know about PLENTY of dark, criminal jive done by the Israeli army in combat and by random Israeli criminals. It isn't that.

The question of why people are snapping back so hard against Tlaib and Omar is a fair one. Their demand fit a ceasefire IMMEDIATELY, with no military option at all, strikes many as ridiculous. A lot of voices on the further Left discredited themselves pretty badly in the immediate aftermath. Tlaib was repeatedly pressed to condemn the sexual violence of Hamas and didn't, it was caught on camera, and I think people have just gotten tired of it.

A rift over Israel threatens the left’s fragile gains | Semafor

Groups like the Democratic Socialists of America are on the defensive as allies condemn activists celebrating the Hamas attack.

www.semafor.com

Israel is going to obliterate Hamas. Kill every trooper, collapse every tunnel, destroy all vehicles and materiel. I would earnestly prefer they could do that without an atrocious civilian death count. FWIW, the Gaza Strip is not the same thing as Gaza City and it is not the wall-to-wall congested urban space that you see on the news. There are plenty of low-density spaces where people could flee, if they can make it.

View attachment 17129

However, if the reports are true, not everyone in Gaza City can escape to the south as Hamas, for whatever reason, have blocked some of the routes.

Hiding in random holes/buildings etc isn't a great option, is it?

 

[MrBlud]

Maybe every current one, but this backlash is only going to ensure there are just as many to carry on.

If nothing changes after this they’re simply going dig new tunnels, and obtain more vehicles/material, and bide their time until they perpetuate another atrocity.

Which will bring an Israeli response and everyone gets to see this happen again (and again, and again, and again)

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Maybe every current one, but this backlash is only going to ensure there are just as many to carry on.

If nothing changes after this they’re simply going dig new tunnels, and obtain more vehicles/material, and bide their time until they perpetuate another atrocity.

Which will bring an Israeli response and everyone gets to see this happen again (and again, and again, and again)

This was something I heard on the (BBC/Channel 4) news; Israel is fine with a military response for short-term gains, but not in political ones for long-term/preventative ones. It needs to find a peaceful and inclusive solution so that Palestinians and Israelis can start to live peacefully.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Any inclusive and peaceful solution by definition cannot include hamas because hamas only exists to destroy israel and kill jews.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Tumblr

Tumblr is a place to express yourself, discover yourself, and bond over the stuff you love. It's where your interests connect you with your people.

www.tumblr.com

 

[Pocket]

Blocked

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Any inclusive and peaceful solution by definition cannot include hamas because hamas only exists to destroy israel and kill jews.

I wrote "Palestinians", not "Hamas".

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Tumblr

Tumblr is a place to express yourself, discover yourself, and bond over the stuff you love. It's where your interests connect you with your people.

www.tumblr.com

For those of us who don't have Tumblr logins....

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

For those of us who don't have Tumblr logins....

 

[Pale Rider]

This video is nine years old and it could have been posted today:

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

I'm not sure how balanced this video is as it does seem to focus (rightly or wrongly) on Saudi Arabia.

Here are some discussions about the channel's reliability:

- https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/4fnsc4
- https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/dmynno
- https://www.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/2r114r
- https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/5sagbc

Apparently (although I haven't checked), he doesn't (always?) cite his sources?

 

[Pale Rider]

The Viral Protester Who Explains Why Benjamin Netanyahu’s Long Political Career May Finally End

“Netanyahu, the corrupt, the very corrupt” has “been in the seat too long,” declared Shirel Hogeg, whose sister and her family were critically wounded in Hamas’s attack.

www.huffpost.com

 

[wonko the sane?]

I wrote "Palestinians", not "Hamas".

And I wrote hamas. Because I meant hamas.

Yes, there should be peace between palestine and israel. Unfortunately: hamas is a political organization, a terrorist organization and exists solely to pursue an ideological goal through murder. They are in the way. There needs to be a new government in palestine if there is to be any long term, lasting peace. You might be able to broker something short term with hamas, but it'll only last until they think they can get another chance to attack.

Do I know how to do to get them out of the way, preferably without civilian casualties? No, even if they weren't using schools and hospitals and the people there in as meat shields. The best way would be getting palestinians to rise up and rid themselves of their oppressors: but it's a catch 22 because that would require their government (hamas.) to actively negotiate in good faith to see towards improving the standard of living for everyone: and they won't because then they won't have pissed off, uneducated, unemployed people with no sight of a future to fight and die for them.

Given what was happening in israel until the shooting started: there probably needs to be a new government in israel too, but they're closer it than palestine is. At least there's something of a democracy there.

 

[NovaSaber]

Hamas is only "the government" of Gaza, not of all Palestine.
The fact that Israel generally treats them as more legitimate than the West Bank's government is actually a part of the problem.

 

[Pale Rider]

Hamas is only "the government" of Gaza, not of all Palestine.
The fact that Israel generally treats them as more legitimate than the West Bank's government is actually a part of the problem.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Thylacine 2000]

For those of us who don't have Tumblr logins....

Sorry - it's a very long post by an Israeli leftist about how a disproportionately high amount of those killed last Saturday were peace activists, anti-occupation / anti-government protestors, left-wing voters, etc. I might see if I can do screencaps, but it would be a lot.

 

[Pocket]

Just copypaste it into a quote tag if it's all text.