Siege Alpha Strike and Phantom Strike sets getting re-released?

[LordGigaIce]

Yeah, RUINED FOREVER ruined so much for me...FOREVER...

Also, Optimus Primal is totally Optimus Prime and Cheetor is Hot Rod and-(this brought to you by 'The Guy Who Spent Way Too Much Time On Ben Yee's Discussion Board Reading Conspiracy Theories. We now return to the post currently in progress) -and they say Silverbolt is appearing in Season 2 of Beast Wars! They're bringing back the Airialbots!!!

...Everything I posted above actually happened on that board...

I remember the rumours that Armada was going to be a sequel to G1, back when all we had was that clip of Optimus and Megatron's first fight on Earth. The thinking was that Megatron's Armada design was the result of Galvatron and Scorponok merging at some point after Rebirth.

I know some people will hate that because it's trying to make a non-G1 thing G1, but I kinda miss speculation like that. It was wild mass guessing and theorizing before social media made that a non-issue.

Even now... we have some sort of new series where Megatron is a bull and Grimlock has BW Megatron's general body design and everyone's just like "eh they'll tell us in a month or so"

I miss the days of nonsense bs being tossed around

 

[Sabrblade]

Ah yes, the ancient origins of RUINED FOREVER.

Nah, that started with TFTM killing Optimus Prime. And again with Action Masters.

But despite Beast Machines' utter failure- and yes it was one, I know the show is underappreciated, but in terms of ratings and sales it just faceplanted-

And with hindsight, we can place blame on the proper parties responsible, which were Hasbro and Dan DiDio. It was their hubris that was to blame, as they both wanted Beast Machines to be a fresh start as far removed from Beast Wars as Beast Wars had been from G1. We now know that Beast Machines was never gonna be "Beast Wars Season 4" as both Forward and DiTillio were done and ready to move on from Beast Wars (and, they admitted, both of them had become too expensive for Hasbro to keep on as story editors), with Hasbro and DiDio telling Skir, Isenberg, and Wolfman to ignore Beast Wars as much as they could when the three of them knew good and well that that made no sense if the show they were making was supposed to be a direct sequel to the series they were deliberately told not to watch. Sheer hubris at work, just like the hubris that led to TFTM killing off the 84/85 cast in favor of the new 86 cast.

I got excited seeing G1 Starscream and Ravage- and the Ark Crew- show up.

I can attest to that, but for different reasons. Aside from the Machine Wars toys, I'd never knowingly seen anything G1-based by the time "The Agenda" premiered. But I did get excited seeing the likes of Starscream, Ravage, and the Ark crew all appear, but not because I knew any of them personally, but because of the sheer presentation of them. The characters spoke of them with such awe and reverence, the urgency of the Maximals trying to get inside the Ark, Megatron's grandiose speech to the unconscious Optimus Prime, and the fact that the Ark guys were so massive in scale compared to the Beast Wars guys. The show could have made all of the G1 characters look nothing like their G1 designs (like Optimus Prime could have been green instead of red), and I still would have gotten the same chills I did from just from the presentation alone.

So I can see someone older, someone with more of a connection to G1 seeing Beast Wars and going "nah not for me."

Oh, that would have been the polite, sensible way to do it.

So the people who just couldn't get on board with BW despite an earnest effort? I get it. No hate. But if anyone seriously thought the whole thing needed to pivot to G1? Yeah those people are delusional.

Heh, that pivoting is how we got the aforementioned G1 cameos and guest appearances that we did get.

hen those people who hated on BW kept calling it "Pokeformers" and that baffles me to this day. 'cause if you spent the entire Beast Era hating the animal stuff and you finally get a line relaunch going back to vehicles... that is keeping a lot that G1 aesthetic... surely you'd take that as a win right? Like it's not G1 exactly, but it has to be close enough after years of the Beast stuff.

But no. Some people just can't be happy.

Catch 'em, catch 'em, gotta catch 'em all! Gotta catch 'em all! Mini-Cons!

Yeah, RUINED FOREVER ruined so much for me...FOREVER...

Also, Optimus Primal is totally Optimus Prime and Cheetor is Hot Rod and-(this brought to you by 'The Guy Who Spent Way Too Much Time On Ben Yee's Discussion Board Reading Conspiracy Theories. We now return to the post currently in progress) -and they say Silverbolt is appearing in Season 2 of Beast Wars! They're bringing back the Airialbots!!!

...Everything I posted above actually happened on that board...

But I thought Cheetor was Prowl? Just look at his headsculpt!

I remember the rumours that Armada was going to be a sequel to G1, back when all we had was that clip of Optimus and Megatron's first fight on Earth. The thinking was that Megatron's Armada design was the result of Galvatron and Scorponok merging at some point after Rebirth.

There was also the clip from the first episode that had a bunch of background cameos with 1987 character designs. That likely contributed to the Rebirth sequel rumors.

 

[Shadewing]

TBF part of me like the idea of "G1 Scorponok took over the Decepticons, and ended up taking the moniker of Megatron" as an alternate take on Armada Megatron.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Oh, that would have been the polite, sensible way to do it.

I know, it's the internet. Gotta be as nuts as possible
Thing is I only got into the internet fandom with RiD '01 because I heard a rumour Transformers were going back to vehicles and I wanted to find some information.
I missed out on this whole era of whacky Beast Wars speculation!

Catch 'em, catch 'em, gotta catch 'em all! Gotta catch 'em all! Mini-Cons!

I don't deny that! But it worked! Ride the zeitgeist!

...ignore Beast Wars as much as they could when the three of them knew good and well that that made no sense if the show they were making was supposed to be a direct sequel to the series they were deliberately told not to watch.

This still baffles me. Hubris, like you said.

But I thought Cheetor was Prowl? Just look at his headsculpt!

Funnily enough the design that became Cheetor was going to be Prowl originally!

I'd be down for a new take on Beast Wars that continues the story set up by the wave one bios and that pack-in comic, where the Maximals and Predacons are just the Autobots and Decepticons in a new stage of their war.

Not that I have an issue with the show divorcing itself from that and telling its own story- it's great that they did and it worked out wonderfully.

But that's the thing- that was that show's story. G1's concepts get thrown into a blender with every new G1 comic reboot. Why not do the same with Beast Wars?
I would have preferred it if IDW's second Beast Wars comic series (not the Gathering, the other one) tried to pick up the prices of the abandoned "sequel to G1/G2" threads instead of regurgitating the show's story in a worse way.

TBF part of me like the idea of "G1 Scorponok took over the Decepticons, and ended up taking the moniker of Megatron" as an alternate take on Armada Megatron.

Same!

 

[Sabrblade]

But that's the thing- that was that show's story. G1's concepts get thrown into a blender with every new G1 comic reboot. Why not do the same with Beast Wars?
I would have preferred it if IDW's second Beast Wars comic series (not the Gathering, the other one) tried to pick up the prices of the abandoned "sequel to G1/G2" threads instead of regurgitating the show's story in a worse way.

I feel like the IDW BW series was mandated by Hasbro to be as familiar and similar to the cartoon as possible, but told in a new way, in order to tie-in with the Kingdom toyline (regardless of how loose a tie-in it ended up being). Brand consistency and all that.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

This is the same Hasbro that made orange Tigatron a reality. I doubt they were the problem with that IDW comic.

 

[Platypus Prime]

Even now... we have some sort of new series where Megatron is a bull and Grimlock has BW Megatron's general body design and everyone's just like "eh they'll tell us in a month or so"

I miss the days of nonsense bs being tossed around

That's because this series is the sequel for Beast Machines where Megatron survived being Reformatted by transferring his spark into Grimlocks body and distracts the Maximals from his resurrection by infecting Longhorn with a virus that gives him Megatron's face and altered memories as a decoy. It's called the Megaplex Protocol.

There, I fixed it!

 

[Undead Scottsman]

I remember the rumours that Armada was going to be a sequel to G1, back when all we had was that clip of Optimus and Megatron's first fight on Earth. The thinking was that Megatron's Armada design was the result of Galvatron and Scorponok merging at some point after Rebirth.

I know some people will hate that because it's trying to make a non-G1 thing G1, but I kinda miss speculation like that. It was wild mass guessing and theorizing before social media made that a non-issue.

Even now... we have some sort of new series where Megatron is a bull and Grimlock has BW Megatron's general body design and everyone's just like "eh they'll tell us in a month or so"

I miss the days of nonsense bs being tossed around

I remember when people thought it was a slap in the face that they dared use G1 designs as background characters on Cybertron in that first episode.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I remember when people thought it was a slap in the face that they dared use G1 designs as background characters on Cybertron in that first episode.

I remember that. That was nuts. Some people man...

 

[Sabrblade]

This is the same Hasbro that made orange Tigatron a reality. I doubt they were the problem with that IDW comic.

I was talking about the premise, not the execution.

 

[lastmaximal]

I think what we're seeing so far is, as tends to be the case with many properties, the most annoying part is the fandom (not exempting myself).

Which... Actually, yeah.

 

[Sabrblade]

This still baffles me. Hubris, like you said.

To say nothing of how much Hasbro tried to stifle Forward and DiTillio in their creative efforts during Beast Wars:

Bob/Larry: "We wanna set Beast Wars out in space, with the characters on going from planet to planet aboard a starship, Star Trek-style."
Hasbro: "No, you have to make it set on a planet. We want it to be set on a planet."

Bob/Larry: "We wanna tell good, complex stories with long-running character development and engaging narratives spread over the course of the season in a serialized manner."
Hasbro: "No, you have to make done-in-one stories to keep each episode standalone. We don't want to alienate new viewers jumping in midseason. We want you to make so they can watch the episodes in any order they want."

Bob/Larry: "We're kicking things up with a cool mystery plotline about these aliens that add in a third force to the story, putting both the Maximals and Predacons on edge from the potential greater threat posed by these aliens."
Hasbro: "Oh, we don't like that. We don't have any alien toys in our Beast Wars line, and we're not gonna make any. Kill the alien plotline and just tell stories about the toys we do make."

Bob/Larry: "We ended Season 1 on a dramatic cliffhanger with Optimus Primal dead and we'd like to keep him dead, or at least not bring him back until nearer to the end of Season 2, so that his death in the Season 1 finale can have some real weight and meaning to it."
Hasbro: "Oh no! You can't leave him dead! We have a new Transmetal Optimus Primal toy to sell! Bring him back immediately! In Episode 1 of Season 2! Have him literally fly back down to show he escaped his death scene at the last minute and didn't actually die." (this ultimately led to a compromise where he was brought back in Episode 3 instead)

Bob/Larry: "We made this cool story arc in season 2 that builds up to something really special that the longtime fans are going to love."
Hasbro: "Yeah, but you barely advertised our new toys in Season 2, with most of them being rushed into the show in just the first three episodes of the season. For Season 3, we want practically every other episode to introduce a new toy."

Bob/Larry: "Okay, we know you didn't like our alien subplot before, but we gotta wrap it up properly and give fans the answers they've been waiting for. So, we're gonna make a two-part episode called "Closure" that finally explains everything we want to say about the aliens before we finish off the third season with the three-part "Nemesis" finale."
Hasbro: "Yeah, no. We've been talking with one of you executive producers, Ace Fipke, and he's come up with a great idea for a brand-new toy for us to make named Tigerhawk, and we want you to put him in the show. We know you've had so many other episodes dedicated to introducing more and more of our toys and we love that, so you gotta kill that "Closure" story and make it be all about Tigerhawk, right? 'Kay, thanks, bye!"
Bob/Larry: "..."
Hasbro: "Hmm, you know, on second thought, we might not be able to get this new Tigerhawk toy off the ground and finished in time to be sold in stores when we need him to be. So, while we appreciate that you took the time to re-work your final alien episode to be all about Tigerhawk like we said, you're gonna have to kill him off before the season's end. We really can't have ya advertising something that we're not actually gonna finish in time to get to market. Cool? Great! Love ya, babe!"
Bob/Larry: "..."
Hasbro: "Oh, wait! No, we take that back. We really can get the Tigerhawk toy finished. We know you already went and killed him off in the final episode, and that the show's already over anyway, but you did go and make a pretty banger debut episode for him, so hopefully that should be enough to get kids to want to buy a toy of the dead guy."
Bob/Larry: "..."
Hasbro: "Golly Gee Willackers, hasn't this partnership of ours just been ever so hunky-dory and swell?! Yippie skippy! Zippity doo dah!"
Bob/Larry:

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Oooh, flood of memories coming back here...

True story: Back when Beast Wars was still new and the episode where Rhinox revives Optimus Primal as a Transmetal was first aired, there were people online whining and moaning about why Rhinox revived Optimus Primal instead of reviving some G1 Autobot character like Optimus Prime or Ironhide, completely failing to understand that there was a new Transmetal Optimus Primal toy on the market that the show had to promote at the time, and just wanted Beast Wars to bring back the G1 characters who weren't even beasts. I am not kidding. They were seriously whining like "Why did Rhinox bother to bring back Primal when he could have brought back G1 Ironhide instead?!!" To which I say, why wouldn't Rhinox revive one of his best friends? Why would he revive some ancient dude he's never met before and has nothing to do with?

This really isn't just a TF thing. Pretty much any time something new comes to replace something; the new thing is met with rejection and people wanting more of the old thing. One notable example outside of TFs, is The Batman (Cartoon). It pretty much got crucified by fans online for simply not being BTAS. With BTAS and NA having a similarly long life span like G1.

In fairness, there was the whole "Bat-embargo" thing where that cartoon's existence was directly impacting the Justice League cartoons and such at the time.

I think if Timm and the DCAU guys were able to still use Batman's rogues, there would have been a lot less groaning about it. Still some groaning, because of course. But less, I'm sure.

Also, Optimus Primal is totally Optimus Prime and Cheetor is Hot Rod and-(this brought to you by 'The Guy Who Spent Way Too Much Time On Ben Yee's Discussion Board Reading Conspiracy Theories. We now return to the post currently in progress) -and they say Silverbolt is appearing in Season 2 of Beast Wars! They're bringing back the Airialbots!!!

As someone who came in to the series after the first episodes kind of established that these are new characters, but grew up with G1 and G2... well, yeah, I thought so from the jump, too. And I think from reading Primal and Megatron's bios on their toys.

Megatron was Megatron, Terrorsaur was Starscream, Scorponok was Scorponok... I forget who I thought the rest were. And Dinobot? Did the people working on this even know anything about Transformers?

Kinda goes to that old Stan Lee saying, "Every comic is someone's first." In this case, I dunno, I'm torn. I wonder if a brief narration during the first season's opening wouldn't have allayed some confusion.

I remember the rumours that Armada was going to be a sequel to G1, back when all we had was that clip of Optimus and Megatron's first fight on Earth. The thinking was that Megatron's Armada design was the result of Galvatron and Scorponok merging at some point after Rebirth.

I was just going to bring that up.

Part of me still wants to see a version where that's indeed the case. I feel like it could be a nice mix of fresh and familiar.

I'd be down for a new take on Beast Wars that continues the story set up by the wave one bios and that pack-in comic, where the Maximals and Predacons are just the Autobots and Decepticons in a new stage of their war.

That is like my dream story. I would be so all over that.

 

[lastmaximal]

Yeah, it's one thing for micro-continuities like that to be pursued by this and that officialized fanfic venue, but it'd be wild if Hasbro actually got a comic or miniseries going that built on one or more of these offshoot things. Whose Tusks Gleam In The Night? Whoosa Good Boy? Whoosa Goody Good Boy?

 

[Sabrblade]

Did the people working on this even know anything about Transformers?

Well, Beast Wars's voice director was Sue Blu, the voice of G1 Arcee.

 

[Shadewing]

Well, Beast Wars's voice director was Sue Blu, the voice of G1 Arcee.

pft. What do girls know about Transformers?

 

[Undead Scottsman]

To be fair, I wouldn't expect anyone from the original series to have much more than a passing familiarity with the franchise. People have more reverence for this now-a-days, but back then it was just another job.

 

[Blot]

Hasbro: "No, you have to make done-in-one stories to keep each episode standalone. We don't want to alienate new viewers jumping in midseason. We want you to make so they can watch the episodes in any order they want."

To be fair on this one, that's hardly a Hasbro mandate and networks in general prefer episodic to serials.

 

[Shadewing]

To be fair on this one, that's hardly a Hasbro mandate and networks in general prefer episodic to serials.

Plus this was the 90's, before serial storytelling became somewhat standard in western TV shows.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

To be fair, I wouldn't expect anyone from the original series to have much more than a passing familiarity with the franchise. People have more reverence for this now-a-days, but back then it was just another job.

And more importantly, with the Transformers brand circling the drain in 1995, I'm not sure anyone really cared if Beast Wars tied into that "dead" aspect of the franchise.
The fact it DID end up tying into the broader lore is probably the most astounding thing about Beast Wars.