Star Trek General Discussion

[Copper Bezel]

I really hate saying this, but they're all chunky costume jewelry made to look good at a distance if at all, and I don't actually really like any of them once I get a close look. I didn't even realize the switch to the gold in Picard only happened in the epilogue, and I still cant be sure I'm seeing the difference in the finish. Hell, I never even noticed that the delta got chubbier and gained a protruding outline in the change from TNG to DS9/Voyager, the latter of which I guess is why all the later combadges have a hollow delta. (There's almost even a logic to how LD still has the outline but gets flat, and the Protostar badge has the split delta because of its comet element, and those come together in the All Good Things badge.) I thought I probably liked the Picard one best, but the more I look at it, the less I actually like the thick layers and delta outline.

I do appreciate the way the All Good Things badge came back around to looking like a simple metal badge after the toylike ones in TNG/DS9/Voyager though. I don't like how those made it obvious where you pop the back open to put in the coin cell battery to make the beep-beep noises. Kinda fitting how the Disco tricom eventually brings it full circle by being primarily a gadget that's simply decorated with a badge on top, just like the TNG one.

I think my ideal look would be the Disco S1 command division badge, minus the pips and the split-level shape, so it's just a smooth delta with the comet, and without the backing layer and friendlier corners of the SNW badges. Could be cheeky with it too by making the comet negative space, shifting it to the left (the wearer's right), and having the tail pass through the upper edge of the delta. I do also kind of like the Kelvin badges with their revised division icons, goofy worm outline not even trying to be cool, and simple flat design.

But anyone could make cooler badges. I just think it's cool how Trek made these weird decisions along the way but stuck with them in consistent ways that made sense in continuity. It feels like some kind of moment that the present of one of these series has finally caught up to this badge that's existed for thirty years and been consistently referenced from either side on the timeline.

 

[The Predaking]

I like to think that, just like inn TOS, the uniforms and combadges are just completely random by whatever posting you get assigned to. Eventually you get a new district manager/Commadore, and they swap up the uniforms.

 

[Copper Bezel]

The uniforms certainly are. That's one of those things that, like it or not, it's just too pervasive not to consider canon. Every new show has a new uniform, and they'll change them at least once again for a refresh, most of those uniforms never to be seen again.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Yeah, each show needs to create and maintain a distinct design to stand out in a field that spans 60 years.

 

[Donocropolis]

I'm just waiting for the series with the cool, laid-back captain that lets everyone just wear jeans.

 

[wonko the sane?]

I'm waiting for the cotemporary female captain.

"Hey! Cute uniform."

"THANKS! It has POCKETS!"

 

[TM2-Megatron]

I really hate saying this, but they're all chunky costume jewelry made to look good at a distance if at all, and I don't actually really like any of them once I get a close look. I didn't even realize the switch to the gold in Picard only happened in the epilogue, and I still cant be sure I'm seeing the difference in the finish. Hell,

It's hard to see in the show itself, especially given the lighting on those newer ships. The Fansets reproductions make it very clear, though.

 

[MrBlud]

IMO, it would be really cool if the Picard design opened the side inside the delta to the old TOS class symbols

 

[Copper Bezel]

hug you're right, that big left field is aching for it. How much would you hate it if they used the Kelvin versions and just pretended they were new to the 25th century

The Engineering / Ops icon in particular across TOS / Disco / SNW looks so, so very bad to me, like it was drawn freehand on a napkin, and then Kelvin badges come along and save the day with their immaculate, uniform little Helvetica interpretations of the division icons, skewing the science atom and emtallening the medical cross to make a delighful, metrically consonant set

For reasons I can't explain when I'm sitting here looking directly at both, I viscerally need the outline delta of the AGT badge over the Picard one, but the Picard one is still sleek as hug with the offset / trimmed trapezoids, and those criiiiiiisp ass vector division icons from the Kelvin badges would be downright sexual punched into the gunmetal field of the Picard badge. Only slightly less sensual, but more readable in the gold version.

I hate how deeply you've made me need this, this idea you've released into the world is too good for it

 

[The Predaking]

Ok. I just saw that I missed like four pages of posts in this thread, so I am going to get caught up on my comments. My apologies in advance.

 

[The Predaking]

I'm surprised with Dukat cuz I thought he was practically redeemed with his daughter. Then she died, geez. Gonna be weird that the show will be ending with him having a different look.

I'm at the point where Bashir realizes that Section 31 and that guy Sloan is responsible for the changeling virus. I'm actually not fond of the Section 31 idea since it seemed like it came out of nowhere yet seems so powerful.

Worf also fought for a chancellor seat and gave it away? Would have been nice if he ended the show on a higher position.

There seems to be a lack of Quark in the final eps. That's... Ok?

Nog being happy was great then the program blanking out hurt, yeah. Yeah, they had that heist movie with Sisko joining in and him throwing money around, haha. Also saw the part where Martok talked about his Tarq running away. And I realize I've seen a Tarq before! In that Lower Decks ep where a Tarq pet helps his dogsitter win a fight on the bridge, hehe

Dukat is a great character and the best villain of all Star Trek. He legitimately does have character growth through the series, even though its not positive growth in the end.

Section 31 is a great idea, as it gives the Federation a seedy underbelly that even the great admirals, like Ross, tolerate.

Worf, as you now know, does become ambassador to the Klingon empire. Martok is excited for an ambassador that will go hunting with him.

The Targ was a great story, and I loved how Martok describes marriage as a war. The same episode Kasidy destroys Sisko's tomatoes.

 

[The Predaking]

Section 31 was probably the worst thing DS9 introduced to the Star Trek universe, really. We already had Starfleet Intelligence, did we really need some shadow quasi-legal organization that both is and isn't part of the Federation government? It's like they just wanted a Federation equivalent to the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order. I really feel it was the only major misfire of DS9(though I haven't rewatched it in awhile, I may be forgetting some things)

Section 31 is great, because it shows that the Federation does have that seedy underbelly, and that perhaps Q was right when he said that Humanity isn't as evolved as it thinks it is.

 

[The Predaking]

Well, I got to the end of Deep Space 9. Quark got an ep (but, really, ROM?!?). It wasn't a space battle that won everything but Kira and Garak taking over a practically unguarded building seemed not very sci-fi-y but, ok sure. The Sisko Winn Dukat thing almost feels tacked on after all that, because the Dominion wasn't really involved with wormhole aliens.

WTFerengi is up with that anyway? Does Sisko come back? And Odo leaves forever too? Granted Kira can go romance the next executive in Bajor but c'mon, space sheriff Odo was awesome and unique. O'Brien leaving didn't really have to happen. Whatever on the Bashir Ezri arc. Nog is young and I'll have to watch the Lower Decks DS9 ep again to see if there's mention of him.

It's a good enough season ending and I'm glad the changelings were saved but I think the Bajoran mystic stuff could have been a separate event or season. I checked the other shows and they all stopped at seven seasons so I guess that was really it.

Good show. Odo was my fave at first then turned to Nog. Oh and something that I didn't mention before but greatly appreciated was Sisko always ALWAYS hugging and/or kissing and saying I love you to Jake. It fades into the background cuz it was so common place but, wow, some kid or teen out there must have connected to that frequent display of father and son affection. I appreciate the writers or producers for sticking with it. Must have helped more that one person feel loved out there.

---
Anyhow, I'm done. What Star Trek could I check into next? My friend is raved about ep2 of Strange New Worlds and I've already seen the Lower Decks crossover ep. Should I get into that next? Or Next Gen vs Voyager?

Yeah, the whole Ferngi culture changing on a dime like that under the last Nagis was a bit weird and out of nowhere. Rom would make a better Nagis in that world than Quark would though.

Sisko doesn't come back in any series or film. Originally, they were going to have Sisko just become a full time prophet but Avery Brooks said no to that, as it would not be a good example of a black man leaving his pregnant wife. So they added that line about him returning at some point in the future or past. My head canon, is that he built a house on the land that he picked out on Bajor, and was there two weeks later when Jake took his step mom and sibling to visit Bajor, ready with lunch.

I like that the Changelings agreed to end the war for the cure and to bring back Odo. Heck, even the foundling that surrendered went to jail.

As for Sisko and Jake, everyone noticed that. Its part of why Sisko is such an awesome character, and I can't say it any better than this one man did to Avery Brooks himself. I looked for the clip but I can't seemed to find it now. What it was, at a convention appearance, this young man told him that he didn't have a father growing up and that watching Sisko and Jake taught him how to be a father to his son. Avery Brooks was so moved, the man jumped off the stage and went and gave the man a hug.




My vote is to Next Generation. It's great once you get past season 1.

 

[The Predaking]

Frankly: you could skip voyager entirely and not really miss or lose anything. There was nothing of note that happens to the wider federation other than "oh, they survived". It wasn't very well written, and while it wasn't bad or un-fun, it adds nothing. It was structured to be more episodic rather than outright story driven: so when you expect (at the end.) to met up with a lean, tired, hungry crew rolling in a ship held together by bondo and duct tape: you GET a ship of the line ready for its next deployment. And if you're going to comment "well, they met more new species since TOS", I can easily counter with "the intrepid class was spec built to start the next federation era of exploration meant for five year deployments out past federation borders and they were going to do that anyway".

Why haven't you watched next gen yet? It LITERALLY leads to the events that unfolds on DS9.

Voyager has some great episodes, and it is definitely worth a watch. The ending also has a tremendous effect on the galaxy as well, which is why Q didn't send them home with a snap. Also, Q has a lot of fun episodes in Voyager.

As for the whole ship should be falling apart or an amalgam of different parts or what have you. The federation tech is pretty good at taking raw materials and making things with replicators, and I imagine that is how they got those extra shuttles, the delta flyer, and all those extra torpedoes. They probably could synthesize anything they needed.

Also,

Spoiler

they had a little help with some future tech at the end.

 

[The Predaking]

Even I'll concede that the last season of Enterprise contains some really good fun and clever stories. Everything touching on the Andorians and Tellarites is best in class prequel worldbuilding. Of course, even aside from the finale, it begins the trend Picard later picked up of the extended Brent Spiner family, and while the Mirror Universe episodes are very fun, they're also the most inconsequential to the series they appear in of any Mirror Universe diversion by way of not connecting with the Prime universe story at all, which contributes to the feeling that the series has mostly lost interest in its own story by the time it wraps up in a TNG episode.

I get a lot of hate for the Mirrorverse story on Enterprise, but it did show the Terran empire at its beginning and showed how they actually were able to conquer these civilizations that were far more technically advanced.

 

[The Predaking]

Hehe, I was actually coming off the high of finishing Orville and asked in one of the Star Trek threads (or the Orville thread) which Star Trek series I should watch first. The votes went with Deep Space 9 so what's what I went with, hehe.

So I should go with Next Gen next? I think I can go there after I see Strange New Worlds. Apparently it's only 17 eps so I can finish that first. Then I'll see about Next Gen or whatever else gets recommended.

I looked it up and, yeah, Nog aka Aron E passed away at age 50? That's still pretty young. Man, that's horrible. I know Odo aka Rene A passed away too. I hope their characters and legacies are remembered.

---
Also, I rewatched DS9 Lower Decks ep and WTQ, I didn't realize Shaxs was a Bajoran!!! I've been seeing the nose ridge all this time and I didn't know!

Actually, for Cardassians and Bajorans, other than their ridges and spots, do they have any special alien abilities?

Vulcans and Romulans - smarter (?)
Klingon - more physical (?)
Trill - um, can carry symbions?



Cardassians - ?
Bajorans - ?
Orions - ?

DS9 is a great one to watch first. Its more gritty and more realistic characters like Orville has. As I said, TNG is a great show to watch, and after that, I would recomend Voyager, and then Enterprise. If you haven't seen TOS, its worth a go too after that. Then you can check out the new streaming era of Star Trek shows, or even the TNG movies.


Something no one else has mentioned is that the Vulcans also have a telepathic abilities as well. They seemed to require physical contact though. Romulans seemed to not have this ability.

 

[The Predaking]

Lots of great talk here, but I just wanted to stress that Section 31 works where THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS that bad admirals tolerate and your average starfleet officer who discovers them finds repulsive.

Any point where they are painted in a positive light or act openly (geez disco) is not good.

^This. Section 31 is something that you are supposed to dislike about the Federation. However, it also shows a reflection on yourself. Do you adamantly want them gone or do you accept that they are a necessary evil?

I would argue that they helped bring about the end of the Dominion War.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Sisko doesn't come back in any fiction.

Could I ask for some clarification on this line? Because, obviously, Sisko did come back in the Pocket DS9 stories, about a year after he ascended.

 

[The Predaking]

Could I ask for some clarification on this line? Because, obviously, Sisko did come back in the Pocket DS9 stories, about a year after he ascended.

Sorry, I don't really consider the novels canon, but I should clarify that statement.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Sorry, I don't really consider the novels canon, but I should clarify that statement.

OK. I don't consider the novels canon, either, although I do enjoy them.