Next one is space whales. And kirks kid dying will come back later, and kirk will have more emotion about it.
Star Trek General Discussion
- Thread starter SHIELD Agent 47
- Start date
As well, it will deal with the fallout of their defying orders. Without spoiling too much, I think I can say that when we first see the crew in IV, they’re still on Vulcan figuring out their next move.
You deeply misunderstand the purpose of leaving the katra. It was never intended to be rejoined to Spock's body (and they make this explicitly clear at the end of the movie when they point out that the procedure to do so hadn't been done in ages). The katra was to be returned to Vulcan.
You're not expected to know about other series that you haven't seen yet, but we learn in Enterprise that katras reside in stone vessels on Vulcan.
There is a brain-tickly feeling reading a post like this and knowing a lot of the answers since 1986.
Did you already watch Enterprise? If you did, you know that a katra can get stored in a jar. That is probably what Spock had in mind.
If the crew want to save their careers, they're going to need to do something really impressive.
Kirk was affected by his son dying. Even in that movie. But it comes up again in 6.
Though it is not clear to me what the intention was at the time. For a long time I assumed that Spock was just doing a hail mary. Possibly his body could be revived or something could be figured out.
Shooting his body into space played into Harve Bennett's obsession with Horatio Hornblower. I started to stay Spock didn't know they would shoot his body into space, but the scene sort of suggests that they always do that. I don't believe they would ever do that on a starship, not having the sort of problem that old sailing vessels would. There is space to keep a body in a cooler and bring it back to the family.
Indeed. I was always understood it was so the katra could return home to Vulcan(at least before Enterprise fleshed things out). Kind of a 'last voyage home' type of thing. Despite their devotion to logic, the Vulcans were always very keen on tradition and rituals. That was evident from all the rituals associated with Pon Farr in Amok Time.
I watched Enterprise (before I watched Voyager) but I guess I forgot about the katra's in jars part (I'm going from memory here but this has to be the eps where Archer has some energy that he had to give to a lady in the underground movement? When the guy died... while walking through a desert? Or is it the Andorians fighting against Vulcans having secret bases in their religious temples?)
So Spock's resurrection in his own body really was a fluke. Passing Vulcan Katras is just akin to some sort of invasive involuntary keepsake to send to families or something. Weird. Well, if it's logical to them.
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Something weird I thought was the pon far scene for teen Spock. Guess it was puberty hitting him all that once.
So Spock's resurrection in his own body really was a fluke. Passing Vulcan Katras is just akin to some sort of invasive involuntary keepsake to send to families or something. Weird. Well, if it's logical to them.
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Something weird I thought was the pon far scene for teen Spock. Guess it was puberty hitting him all that once.
Too be fair, McCoy was one of his two best friends, despite are the arguments and debates that they had between them. If Spock would have asked him, McCoy would have probably let him, but he didn't have the time for debate nor the question.
Cool story bro. Still rape.
Yeah, it was the Archer in the desert episode. The Katra is the essence of the Vulcan, so it being stored by the family is common place among them. The fact that they had a regenerated body to put the Katra into was, as you say, a fluke.
That was his wife/lover, but no one could be allowed to know the secret of Genesis and its blast processing.
He only shows his two trusted officers to get their opinion on it. Yes, they had a few hundred years to work out the kinks and not use unstable materials like David Marcus did.
Considering how many times Kirk and Crew have saved the galaxy, even without the events of the next film, I would say that they will be fine. And besides they knew what they were giving up when they started this path, and would gladly give it up again especially knowing that they get Spock back in the end.
Ok, Go back and watch that scene. Kirk doesn't even make it back to his chair and just collapses. He openly yells at Kurn, turning from the veteran commander into a angry father.
The thing is, Kirk knows about David. He has all of David's life, but Carol Marcus wanted Kirk to stay out of David's life. Kirk is torn apart here. He is still torn when he enters the destruct code.
As for David, they gave him a good death. Kirks die to save people. David Kirk died to protect Savik and Spock. The actor would play a major role in a TNG episode later on, but sadly he passed away at the age of 29 in 1989.
(A funny side note about the death scene, is that the Klingon language wasn't made up before this film. They got a guy to make it up for them, and from there it evolved into its own language. However, in this case, Christopher Llyod, who does an amazing job redefining what a Klingon is, delivers the line in Klingon. The line is "Kill one of them, I don't care which." Llyod forgets the last part of the line, but they all loved his delivery of the first part that they use it. Llyod is upset about this, and goes to the writer, who actually comforts him by saying, "You said kill one of them, its just like in English, that it is implied that you don't care which one." )
So this film paints Kirk in a bad light for most people. Allow me to ask you a question. Now that you have seen it, which statement do you feel is more accurate:
1. Kirk is a rule bending/breaking captain that does what he wants and doesn't listen to anyone else.
2. Kirk wanted to bring his friend home so badly that he and his crew broke all the rules to do so.
Now that is taking it way too far.
I mean... spock wound up in mccoy without consent...
The lady was Klingon Christopher Lloyd's lover? Geez.
Kirk immediately grieved when he heard David was dead but afterwards, was just concerned about getting Spock back.
The situation wasn't under his control but if it was and Kirk was given a choice to pick if his son or Spock gets to live, it feels like he'd pick Spock. Despite Spock having died already, he seems more concerned about the slight chance that he can be revived over his son's safety. But, well, situation not under his control.
(I like that Christopher Lloyd story about missing the last part, hehe)
I'm inclined to pick 1. He does what he wants (but phrased better). I guess time is of the essence with the katra fading in McCoy but it's an alien culture thingy plus the sudden new science happening on Genesis. The Vulcans would have thrown their weight around to expedite whatever action is needed.
Kirk immediately grieved when he heard David was dead but afterwards, was just concerned about getting Spock back.
The situation wasn't under his control but if it was and Kirk was given a choice to pick if his son or Spock gets to live, it feels like he'd pick Spock. Despite Spock having died already, he seems more concerned about the slight chance that he can be revived over his son's safety. But, well, situation not under his control.
(I like that Christopher Lloyd story about missing the last part, hehe)
I'm inclined to pick 1. He does what he wants (but phrased better). I guess time is of the essence with the katra fading in McCoy but it's an alien culture thingy plus the sudden new science happening on Genesis. The Vulcans would have thrown their weight around to expedite whatever action is needed.
I think they would be much better friends in later years. Less so here.
The scene is very dramatic. I haven't seen it in years and I think it is mainly burned in. In retrospect, we know FOR SURE that Spock saved the ship. They DEFINITELY all die if he doesn't go do that. And I think Spock did the math in his head and knew that. But Scotty and McCoy don't know it.
I have never been in this sort of situation. I guess the military is the best place to find one and other movies and shoes depict situations where a commander orders someone to sacrifice themselves for the team. Star Trek doesn't like to go in so cold as that. They could've just as easily written the scene where Scotty doesn't try to stop Spock because he know it is what has to be done. But as the scene is written Scotty and McCoy are both there and are afraid Spock is going to get killed when the situation is that they are all about to get killed and if Spock fails he will be no worse off for it. I guess a Starfleet crew, this one for sure, never believes they are out of chances.
Yup.
Oh, trust me. He was just focused on survival at that point. Kirk is a great leader, and was just trying to make it out of there. By the time that they get involved with the Klingons again, Kirk is all rage and up for their geocide.
Here is the video on it. Its 20 minutes long, but it's a great watch. The story starts around the 15 minute mark.
Ok, I watched Voyage Home and I loved it! It was a lot of fun and a good ending, whew. Since it was light hearted, I guess the humor would bypass logic in plot.
So the signal that's destroying earth is what Futurama's A Game of Tones was referencing? The Futurama key fob noise was vibrating the world to destruction but the Star Trek alien cigar thing was draining energy and... disrupting weather?
Yes, TOS DID travel back in time in one of the eps! They're so cavalier about it! Didn't even bother to think of other ways, just went with time travel and get some whales, haha!
Dang it, the whole 'aliens or future people adjusting to regular Earth stuff is funny' is a common trope but, yeeeeah, still effective. Loved it. Throw it out the window that Kirk is experienced at it (Spock is still wonky and Bones was... crazy in that TOS ep).
Loved the exchange of transparent aluminum tech cuz it reminded me of that Enterprise ep with T'Pol's ancestor and her crew's stay and Velcro.
The whales are real? Spock swimming with the whale and touching it looked like the real deal. This wouldn't fly now, I think.
I laughed when Chekov said his rank was admiral, hehe
I liked the lady being able to accept the future stuff. Yes, I WOULD jump at the chance to go to the future, gosh darn it! She even got a job, dang! Totally putting the audience in the person's shoes, dang it! So many time travel protocols broken tho, I'm sure.
Poor Klingon Bird of Prey crash landed ship. Hope they fix her up, maybe use her again in the future. Hey, what happened to the remaining Klingons onboard from Search for Spock? They were left on Vulcan planet?
So... the whales talked to the cigar ship and it left? Why wasn't that explained? I figured the ship was going to take the whales or... some sort of time loop where the whales are the aliens and getting their ship back (like Futurama Game of Tones kinda). Is this Voyager Vygr movie 1 deal that the cigar is an earth made ship but created by... super smart whales? Because whales are actually an advanced species living in hiding on earth? I'll look it up but it was a little frustrating to not get answers. I wanted to see the cigar land and see... something talk to the whales in person, I dunno. Maybe the whale being pregnant was important, like they needed whale babies or something. I dunno. Also, who knows what visiting alien life is swimming on Earth? The out of time whales might not be able to adapt, with new food to eat or temperature or whatever. There really must be something going on with the whales!
Cool ending with the crew getting a new Enterprise. Khan, Search and Voyage are actually a neat trilogy together, Search being the weakest. It's contrived that a world destroying threat would appear all of a sudden and Kirk and crew were able to get pardons cuz they stopped it but, well, light hearted stuff bypassed plot logic.
So the signal that's destroying earth is what Futurama's A Game of Tones was referencing? The Futurama key fob noise was vibrating the world to destruction but the Star Trek alien cigar thing was draining energy and... disrupting weather?
Yes, TOS DID travel back in time in one of the eps! They're so cavalier about it! Didn't even bother to think of other ways, just went with time travel and get some whales, haha!
Dang it, the whole 'aliens or future people adjusting to regular Earth stuff is funny' is a common trope but, yeeeeah, still effective. Loved it. Throw it out the window that Kirk is experienced at it (Spock is still wonky and Bones was... crazy in that TOS ep).
Loved the exchange of transparent aluminum tech cuz it reminded me of that Enterprise ep with T'Pol's ancestor and her crew's stay and Velcro.
The whales are real? Spock swimming with the whale and touching it looked like the real deal. This wouldn't fly now, I think.
I laughed when Chekov said his rank was admiral, hehe
I liked the lady being able to accept the future stuff. Yes, I WOULD jump at the chance to go to the future, gosh darn it! She even got a job, dang! Totally putting the audience in the person's shoes, dang it! So many time travel protocols broken tho, I'm sure.
Poor Klingon Bird of Prey crash landed ship. Hope they fix her up, maybe use her again in the future. Hey, what happened to the remaining Klingons onboard from Search for Spock? They were left on Vulcan planet?
So... the whales talked to the cigar ship and it left? Why wasn't that explained? I figured the ship was going to take the whales or... some sort of time loop where the whales are the aliens and getting their ship back (like Futurama Game of Tones kinda). Is this Voyager Vygr movie 1 deal that the cigar is an earth made ship but created by... super smart whales? Because whales are actually an advanced species living in hiding on earth? I'll look it up but it was a little frustrating to not get answers. I wanted to see the cigar land and see... something talk to the whales in person, I dunno. Maybe the whale being pregnant was important, like they needed whale babies or something. I dunno. Also, who knows what visiting alien life is swimming on Earth? The out of time whales might not be able to adapt, with new food to eat or temperature or whatever. There really must be something going on with the whales!
Cool ending with the crew getting a new Enterprise. Khan, Search and Voyage are actually a neat trilogy together, Search being the weakest. It's contrived that a world destroying threat would appear all of a sudden and Kirk and crew were able to get pardons cuz they stopped it but, well, light hearted stuff bypassed plot logic.
Anyway, it was still effective in 1986.
Did you watch Picard? It is in the museum.
I think the alien was coming to check on the Humpback whales and didn't find any.
5 also happens right on the tail of 4. Quadrilogy.
Just a friendly warning, 5 is gonna be a rough watch. There are some good character moments between Kirk Spock and McCoy but that’s about it.