Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

Rhinox

too old for this
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As I said previously, his behavior during the sermon was just straight up disrespectful. I'm certain someone had to explain to him what was said because it was clear he hadn't been paying attention. And now that he knows it was something he wouldn't like it was "nasty". Nasty is his catch all word for anything that may be critical of him. His vocabulary isn't that great.
 

Axaday

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I'm not religious so I see the very existence of the National Prayer Service to be a little archaic and didn't bother to watch it BUT my understanding is she was calling for mercy and understanding. If Trump takes that as a slight against him it's just another piece of evidence that he isn't a good person.(As if there wasn't a huge pile of the stuff already)
You can just watch a minute of either clip posted here. I have ADHD and can sympathize with his boredom, but grownups who wear suit jackets don't usually comment publicly that they were bored at church or at any solemn event or really anywhere.

You would find nothing offensive in any part that I watched. She just talks about how people are different, but we have to find ways to work together toward shared goals. She alludes to there being internal and external threats to unity right now and trends that threaten truth. Then she asks him to show mercy to LGBTQ+ and immigrants in general and also undocumented. She says that some of them are scared for their lives right now and that is certainly what he liked least about the sermon, but her tone and demeanor are very mild, bordering on bland. She didn't raise her voice or scowl. She doesn't even SAY that he is a threat to unity, truth, or marginalized people. She just asks him to show some mercy. She MIGHT have said that to any new President.

I GUESS that he has supporters that will see his "Truth" and just say, "Oh, those woke liberals!" and aren't going to go listen. But I just don't think there is any point in bringing it up to those people anyway. Maybe the news cycle was saying that he got a little scolding and he wanted to ablate that? Or, I guess I am overthinking it. Maybe he was just nettled and needed to hit back.

You might recall about 8 years ago Mike Pence went to see Hamilton and the cast gave him a special plea that he was watching a show that was celebrating diversity, but some of America's diversity was concerned about the incoming Trump/Pence administration and asked Pence to have mercy. Trump complained to social media that they had disrespected Pence. Pence said he wasn't offended, because that's what an experienced politician does in a situation like that. You can make it look like it really had nothing to do with you, the other person was just voicing their concerns and you listened. Because people actually know that marginalized groups ALWAYS have some concerns about a new administration that hasn't fully shown their hand yet. Pence played it off correctly, but Trump couldn't stand it. I think if I were Pence being asked about it that night, I think I would have tried to pretend that I thought they were referring to the line about John Adams not having a real job.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
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Priest had an opportunity to make a plea on behalf of the things she believed in, which is literally the job of a priest. She took her shot is all.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
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As I said previously, his behavior during the sermon was just straight up disrespectful. I'm certain someone had to explain to him what was said because it was clear he hadn't been paying attention. And now that he knows it was something he wouldn't like it was "nasty". Nasty is his catch all word for anything that may be critical of him. His vocabulary isn't that great.
He turns to Melania to tell a joke a few times and he looks over his program, but I think he is mainly listening. He looks at the speaker a lot and has some facial tells.

I feel weird about mitigating you, because I don't like the man one bit more than you do, but I have ADHD and I fidget at church. I wouldn't like to hear what people said if they watched me on camera.
 

Axaday

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I do not want the job of being Trump's image coach. I wouldn't do that job for him. But I wonder in moment like this whether he has significant amounts of supporters that feel better about him from reading that "Truth" or whether they just at best forgive him for it because of other charms. My conventional wisdom is that he diminishes himself in the eyes of both sides with a thing like that, but I don't maybe have my finger totally on the pulse. I am very familiar with Bible-belt evangelicals and with non-religious blue collar workers. I don't think the former likes to hear him say a so-called Bishop was boring or not smart, even if she is a woman and a liberal, neither of which are much appreciated in a preacher. I'm not really SURE what the latter think, but my gut says they just shrug it off as church being church. The non-religious blue collar worker in Oklahoma generally believes that churches are a good thing for women and children, but churches here are conservative. They may be aware that this isn't necessarily the case on the east coast.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
He turns to Melania to tell a joke a few times and he looks over his program, but I think he is mainly listening. He looks at the speaker a lot and has some facial tells.

I feel weird about mitigating you, because I don't like the man one bit more than you do, but I have ADHD and I fidget at church. I wouldn't like to hear what people said if they watched me on camera.
I disagree with your assessment. He looks, yes, but I think it's pretty apparent that he's not really paying attention. Least not till his name or title is mentioned. Then he gives it thought and goes right back to wherever his lizard brain resides when not directly engaged.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
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His supporters are a cult and they will agree with anything the leader says. It's as simple as that.
There have been shifts. 8 years ago I saw a lot of people saying he was good, Christian man and 6 months ago the same people were saying they aren't voting for pastor, they are voting for President and his policies are what matter. Mainly because he has been beastly in public too many times to ignore, but partly because of stuff like this. He goes to church and acts like people they know who are pretending to be good, Christian men.

I know that from inside LGBTQ+ it feels like the DNC is giving faint support, but if they were really cutthroat and really sure that the GOP has shifted to candidates like Trump, they could stop talking about it, ESPECIALLY the T part, and it would make serious problems for the GOP. I believe evangelicals are starting to get uncomfortable, but they aren't going to the arms of the Democrats, so they tow the line. If you look at how GOP was handling this in this election, especially on social media, they weren't arguing that Democratic positions were IMMORAL anymore. They were arguing that they had lost touch with reality. On abortion, they used to say "Abortion is murder". Now they said, "These guys don't know what fetus is". On trans-gender they used to say "God doesn't make mistakes". Now they said, "These guys don't know what a woman is. These guys don't know what bathroom to use". And it worked. The man on the street, at least around here, is much more likely to say that the Democrats have lost touch with reality than they are to say the Democrats are ungodly. (It worked so well that they could say keep an eye on your dog so an immigrant won't eat it and still the Democrats have lost touch with reality)
 
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Axaday

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A great portion of undocumented residents came on airplanes, but they generally do the arriving itself legally. I'm not sure what the problem with the TSA is, in his view. The person he fired there was his pick before. Biden had reconfirmed them for a second term.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
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But I wonder in moment like this whether he has significant amounts of supporters that feel better about him from reading that "Truth" or whether they just at best forgive him for it because of other charms.

You underestimate how many American Christians will get no more than one sentence into the story, see a woman Bishop, and say "Wait, what?"
 

G.B.Blackrock

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His supporters are a cult and they will agree with anything the leader says. It's as simple as that.
That's pretty much it. It's extremely annoying to see the legions of so-called "Christians" condemning the sermon as "political" or somehow out of place in a place of worship, or who accuse Budde of not knowing her Bible (which was quoted and paraphrased extensively) because of her (and, often, the Episcopal Church's) acceptance of certain behaviors (you all know which ones).

News flash: Even if they were right about the sin (they're not, but that's a much longer argument I don't have the patience to expound to those who will never listen anyway), it doesn't negate the commands toward mercy Budde preached about. Indeed, when the Bible commands believers to welcome the outcast and the stranger, it is assumed that those outsiders aren't fellow believers (and thus wouldn't be expected not to sin as a precondition of the mercy).
 

NovaSaber

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Anyone have John Bolton being the first person the leopards ate the face of? I didn't.

Wait, if Secret Service protection can be removed, what the hug was the argument against putting Trump in prison where he obviously belongs again?
 

Fullstrength Motleypuss

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I thought it might be helpful to post a fairly comprehensive list of what Trump has done so far (and some reactions), thanks to Heather Cox Richardson on Facebook:

January 22, 2025 (Wednesday)
Marc Caputo of Axios reported today that Trump’s decision to pardon or commute the sentences of all the January 6 rioters convicted of crimes for that day’s events, including those who attacked police officers, was a spur of the moment decision by Trump apparently designed to get the issue behind him quickly. “Trump just said: ‘F*ck it: Release ‘em all,’” an advisor recalled.
Rather than putting the issue behind him, Trump’s new administration is already mired in controversy over it. NBC News profiled the men who threw Nazi salutes, posted that they intended to start a civil war, vowed “there will be blood,” and called for the lynching of Democratic lawmakers. These men, who attacked police with bear spray, flag poles, and a metal whip and choked officers with their bare hands, are now back on the streets.
That means they are also headed home to their communities. Jackson Reffitt, who reported his father Guy’s participation in the January 6 riot and was a key witness against him, told reporters he fears for his life now that his father is free. Jackson recorded his father’s threat against talking to the authorities. “If you turn me in, you’re a traitor,” his father said, “and traitors get shot.” “I’m honestly flabbergasted that we've gotten to this point," Jackson told CNN. “I’m terrified. I don’t know what I’m going to do.”
The country’s largest police union, the Fraternal Order of Police, has spoken out against the pardons, as has the International Association of Chiefs of Police. The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote: “Law and order? Back the blue? What happened to that [Republican Party]?” “What happened [on January 6, 2021] is a stain on Mr. Trump’s legacy,” it wrote. “By setting free the cop beaters, the President adds another.”
Mark Jacob of Stop the Presses commented: “Republicans—the Jailbreak Party.”
One of the pardoned individuals is already back in prison on a gun charge, illustrating, as legal analyst Joyce White Vance said, why Trump should have evaluated “prior criminal history, behavior in prison, [and] risk of dangerousness to the community following release. Now,” she said, “we all pay the price for him using the pardon power as a political reward.” On social media, Heather Thomas wrote: “So when all was said and done, the only country that opened [its] prisons and sent crazy murderous criminals to prey upon innocent American citizens, was us.”
MSNBC’s Kyle Griffin reported that Stewart Rhodes of the Oath Keepers, who was convicted of sedition and sentenced to 18 years in prison, met with lawmakers on Capitol Hill this afternoon.
For the past two days, the new Trump administration has been demonstrating that it is far easier to break things than it is to build them.
In his determination to get rid of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) measures, Trump has shut down all federal government DEI offices and has put all federal employees working in such programs on leave, telling agencies to plan for layoffs. He reached back to the American past to root out all possible traces of DEI, calling it “illegal discrimination in the federal government.” Trump revoked a series of executive orders from various presidents designed to address inequities among American populations.
Dramatically, he reached all the way back to Executive Order 11246, signed by President Lyndon Baines Johnson in September 1965 to stop discriminatory practices in hiring in the federal government and in the businesses of those who were awarded federal contracts. Johnson put forward Executive Order 11246 shortly after Congress passed the Voting Rights Act to protect minority voting and a year after Congress passed the Civil Rights Act, both designed to level the playing field in the United States between white Americans, Black Americans and Americans of color.
In an even more dramatic reworking of American history, though, the Trump administration has frozen all civil rights cases currently being handled by the Department of Justice and has ordered Trump’s new supervisor of the civil rights division, Kathleen Wolfe, to make sure that none of the civil rights attorneys file any new complaints or other legal documents.
Congress created the Department of Justice in 1870…to prosecute civil rights cases.
Today, Erica L. Green reported for the New York Times that Trump’s team has threatened federal employees with “adverse consequences” if they refuse to turn in colleagues who “defy orders to purge diversity, equity and inclusion efforts from their agencies.” Civil rights lawyer Sherrilyn Ifill commented: “Can’t wait until these guys have to define in court a ‘DEI hire’ and ‘DEI employees.’”
Trump’s team has told the staff at Department of Health and Human Services—including the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH)—to stop issuing health advisories, scientific reports, and updates to their websites and social media posts. Lena H. Sun, Dan Diamond, and Rachel Roubein of the Washington Post report that the CDC was expected this week to publish reports on the avian influenza virus, which has shut down Georgia’s poultry industry.
Trump has also set out to make his mark on the Department of Homeland Security. Trump yesterday removed the U.S. Coast Guard commandant, Admiral Linda Lee ***an, and ordered the Coast Guard to surge cutters, aircrafts, boats and personnel to waters around Florida and borders with Mexico and to “the maritime border around Alaska, Hawai’i, the U.S. territories of Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands,” to stop migrants. The service is already covering these areas as well as it can: last August, the vice commandant of the Coast Guard, Admiral Kevin Lunday, told the Brookings Institution that the service was short of personnel and ships.
As Josh Funk reported in the Associated Press, Trump also fired the head of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), responsible for keeping the nation’s transportation systems safe. He also fired all the members of the Aviation Security Advisory Committee, mandated by Congress after the 1988 bombing of PanAm flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, to review safety in airports and airlines.
Hannah Rabinowitz, Evan Perez, and Kara Scannell of CNN reported that Trump has pushed aside senior Department of Justice lawyers in the national security division, prosecutors who work on international affairs, and lawyers in the criminal division, all divisions that were involved in the prosecutions involving Trump.
Trump has also suspended all funding disbursements for projects funded by the Inflation Reduction Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act, laws that invested billions of dollars in construction of clean energy manufacturing and the repair of roads, bridges, ports, and so on, primarily in Republican-dominated states.
Breaking things is easy, but it is harder to build them.
During the campaign, Trump repeatedly teased the idea that he had a secret plan to end Russia’s war against Ukraine in a day. This morning, in a social media post, he revealed it. He warned Russian president Vladimir Putin that he would “put high levels of Taxes, Tariffs, and Sanctions on anything being sold by Russia to the United States, and various other participating countries.”
In fact, President Barack Obama and then–secretary of state John Kerry hit Russia with sanctions after its 2014 invasion of Ukraine, and under President Joe Biden, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, and Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, the U.S. and its allies have maintained biting sanctions against Russia. At the same time, Russia’s trade with the U.S. has fallen to lows that echo those of the period immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union.
“Making a ridiculous post about tariffs on Truth Social was his secret plan to end the war in 24 hours?” wrote editor Ron Filipkowski of MeidasNews. “What a ridiculous clown show. Idiocracy.”
Yesterday, Trump held an event with chief executive officer Sam Altman of OpenAI, chairman and chief technology officer Larry Ellison of Oracle, and chief executive officer Masayoshi Son of SoftBank to roll out a $500 billion investment in artificial intelligence, although Ja’han Jones of MSNBC explained that it’s not clear how much of that investment was already in place. In any case, Trump’s sidekick Elon Musk promptly threw water on the announcement, posting on X, “They don’t actually have the money.” He added “SoftBank has well under $10B secured. I have that on good authority.”
Musk has his own plan for developing AI tools and is in a legal battle with OpenAI. Altman retorted: “this is great for the country. i realize what is great for the country isn’t always what’s optimal for your companies, but in your new role i hope you’ll mostly put [America] first.” As Jones noted, the fight took the shine off Trump’s big announcement.
As for turning his orders into reality, Trump has turned that responsibility over to others.
Mark Berman and Jeremy Roebuck of the Washington Post noted today that Trump’s executive orders covered a wide range of topics and then simply told the incoming attorney general to handle them. A key theme of Trump’s campaign was his accusations that Biden was using the Justice Department against Trump and his loyalists; Berman and Roebuck point out that Trump “appears to want the Justice Department to act as both investigator and enforcer of his personal and policy wishes.”
This morning, Meryl Kornfield and Patrick Svitek of the Washington Post, with the help of researcher Alec Dent, reported on Trump’s first meeting with House speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) and Senate majority leader John Thune (R-SD). Trump frequently repeated, “promises made, promises kept,” but offered no guidance for how he foresees getting his agenda through Congress, where the Republicans have tiny margins. Both Johnson and Thune pointed out that it will be difficult to get majorities behind some of his plans.
According to Kornfield and Svitek, Trump stressed “that he doesn’t care how his agenda becomes law, just that it must.”

 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
That's buyer's remorse kickin' in awful quick.
Good. I know they won't, but I do hope they learn a goddamn lesson.

Here's a question, though. Who the hug is meeting with Stewart Rhodes? Seriously, who the hell took a meeting with that one eyed penis impersonator?
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
4ed368ebcb005349.jpg


"adverse consequences" - welcome to the new McCarthyism.

Also the ADA is now collateral damage:
 


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