Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

Axaday

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There’s no mutual self-defence pact in the Commonwealth like NATO and the EU each have. So I wouldn’t count on that, unfortunately. I suspect worst comes to the worst, most western countries won’t want to be in any conflict with a totalitarian USA.
My mind starts to boggle when I think about this. So much is based on NATO countries staying good. The bad guys are supposed to be outside.

I do think Trump would have a very difficult time with generals, even if he started firing them. In his first term that worked. They would just tell him no and he hated it, but he didn't think he could do anything about it. He has returned with an adapted attitude, but I'm not sure how much is bluster. It seems like someone who really has his ear has told him that control of Panama, Greenland and Canada are CRITICAL to America's future. Not really able to think about complicated things himself, he is just going with whether that person seems right or not. When he is actually sitting in the Pentagon at a table full of generals, they may be able to convince him that he has been listening to a chickenhawk. And it may be that Trump is just playing an unconscionable game of brinksmanship and the initial thoughts about Panama are true of all three: He is just using threats to get economic concessions. Greenland might give him some mineral rights and another base to prevent a really weird and sad conflict. The Canada thing is still mystifying unless he is just trying to demonstrate how big a man he is. From what I can tell, Canada is already letting us operate in the Arctic with no static because despite this rancor and a lot of other stuff, they are our closest ally when it comes to physical security.

If it actually came down to the United States sending in troops and tanks and jets to take over Canada by force and none of the checks at the Pentagon stopped it (and again I think that is probable and insurmountable hurdle), I'd be pretty doubtful about who would help Canada. A threat FROM the biggest NATO nation would be a serious confusion on the mutual aid thing. Note that Germany and Poland and even France have plenty of skin in the game in Ukraine and they help with money and equipment, but none of them have been willing to go to war against Russia. Who wants to go to war against the USA? My best guess is that they all know in that scenario that scary as they are, the US invasion forces are not the real problem. The White House is. They'd be calling for Trump's arrest and they would have well-place d help within the USA. So Donald if you are reading this, don't get bogged down on how illegal and stupid it would all be. Think about how it is your new fast track to impeachment and imprisonment.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
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Individual nato nations don't want to go to war against russia because that means dragging the rest of nato into it. Granted, that would end the war pretty quickly: but no individual nato nation wants to be "that guy". It's also why russia hasn't openly attacked a nato nation: it's game over the second he does it.

Canada relies on the US advanced detection capabilities for our own national security, and the sharing of intelligence information from all over the world along with it.

If trump actively moves to invade... anyone. Someone, doesn't matter: You're probably right that there would be calls for his arrest, his impeachment. But... depending on when he tries, I don't know if it'll succeed.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
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Followed shortly after by, "It's an honor to replace the disloyal general that you just fired, sir! We'll attack that NATO nation right away!".
I really don't think that's how it will go. He'll have to go way, way down the ranks to find someone willing to follow that order. I am pretty sure that no general, not even Mad Dog, would follow him into that hell.
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
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Bold of you to think he'll even bother looking through the ranks at all. He'd probably prefer to recruit from among his loyal followers, regardless of whether they have any military background or expertise.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
Again: depends entirely on when he gives the order: jive stain is already purging oversight from the military. He orders an invasion tomorrow? Never happens. 6 months from now...

The only question is whether trump lives that long.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
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Even if nothing comes of it, all of his talk has pulled the world's attention away from Russia, which is all Puppetmaster Putin wanted Trump to do anyway.
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
I haven't been paying attention to Russia for some time anyway. Is there something going on right now that I should know about? Seems like that war of theirs has turned into an intractable quagmire for both sides, somehow.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
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Bold of you to think he'll even bother looking through the ranks at all. He'd probably prefer to recruit from among his loyal followers, regardless of whether they have any military background or expertise.
I am really not sure whether he can appoint his son the head of the army. It isn't a good look, for sure. But I'm not sure he can't do it. I doubt he can, though.

But the head of the army just does what the head of the army does. To take over Canada you are going to need several Generals, a LOT of Colonels and Majors, hundreds of captains and lieutenants, and thousands of sergeants and privates. Is he going to have all of the officers resign, replace them with Proud Boys, and then see if the enlists can and will follow them?

Because if so, a lot of the discussion above was moot. Canada will be fine. Please don't burn down the White House.
 
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Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
I'm pretty sure Trump thinks replacing just the people on top with his own guys will do the trick, and that everyone else will fall in lock step like the robots he expects all soldiers to be. Alternatively he'll look at the huge overlap between the pro-military my-country-right-or-wrong crowd and his own base (which he already estimates to be about half the country), and assume that even if there are mass desertions, they'll be more than offset by the number of people champing at the bit to enlist and take their place.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
I think his base is more likely than average to enlist in the army and less likely than average to be commissioned.

There might be a lot of privates and corporals that would be excited to invade Canada. Way less than the majority. Maybe a few second lieutenants. No Generals or Colonels. Probably zero.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
And that's really my take. Yeah, the peons and pissants are certainly in for Trump's war by and large. The generals and the higher ups who actually have an awareness of global consequences . . . I don't see them entertaining any of it.
Historically, I believe that most generals, when faced with orders they won't follow, will just resign. How many will resign before Trump reaches low enough to find someone who'll try?
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
And that's really my take. Yeah, the peons and pissants are certainly in for Trump's war by and large. The generals and the higher ups who actually have an awareness of global consequences . . . I don't see them entertaining any of it.
Historically, I believe that most generals, when faced with orders they won't follow, will just resign. How many will resign before Trump reaches low enough to find someone who'll try?
The question is crooked. He could probably go more than 100 down the ranks before one agreed, but one won't do. By the time he found an ambitious major willing to become the head of Trump's Corrupted Army, who is going to be implementing the orders?
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
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Yea, doing that would decimate our ability to fight. You get rid of all the seasoned leaders in the military, you drastically hurt our effectiveness. We'd become a paper tiger, just like Russia.
 

Cybersnark

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There might be a lot of privates and corporals that would be excited to invade Canada. Way less than the majority. Maybe a few second lieutenants. No Generals or Colonels. Probably zero.
But Zero's only a private. And I don't think he knows where Canada is.

5993176-website-zero.jpg
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
We are going to end up alone with the entire ******* world against us because of him.
hug Putin leading us to WW3, Trump will do it himself. And destroy any alliances we had along the way. How will any country deal with us knowing we're one bad election from putting another asshat like Trump in office?

We're well and truly fucked.
 

abates

unfortunate shark issues
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The only reason Colombia turned the flights back was because they were military planes. All the US has to do is sent the migrants on civilian flights. Completely unnecessary step by the Felon in Chief.
 


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