Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

[wonko the sane?]

I don't know if it is true or what will happen, but Trump said today that Vietnam was negotiating. If he gets any concession at all, he can announce that that was what he was trying to get. Lift tariff on Vietnam before it even starts (??). That will get others to the table. I realize Vietnam isn't what the stock market is worried about, but a pile of similar countries makes it plausible to a red hat that Trump stood up to the world and showed them the USA is boss. Honestly a lot of countries that size probably are going to cave. What is Madagascar going to do if they can't sell vanilla to the USA? They are going to have to do what he wants. So to some extent it is really going to be true that the tariffs worked as a negotiation tactic. It is thuggy, but it will be effective.

Bigger countries are bristling, but some of them might cave. He doesn't have to have that. There are lots of other weasely openings too. Any country that isn't playing can be said to have solved one of his imaginary problems. If it looks like the House of Representatives is going to stop the Canada tariffs, Trump just needs to say they finally got serious about Fentanyl. A bunch of NATO countries have increased their defense spending. He can lift EU tariffs because of that. Absolutely any country can turn out to have stopped "manipulating currency". If he gets some lucky and some good timing, he can pull up.

If he digs in, I think there is a very good possibility that he blows up his whole deal.

Okay... he's repeatedly proven he can't be trusted. At all. How many times does he need to "win" in a year to keep the tariffs off?

Some countries might be willing to negotiate now: but how many times will they negotiate with a guy who never honours his contracts before they realize he will not stop?

 

[Corvus]

Trump's gonna cost Republicans the geek vote.

The toy-collecting geeks are already getting up in arms over the arguably meager increases in collectable prices thus far, so this is just more fuel for that particular fire.

 

[Axaday]

Okay... he's repeatedly proven he can't be trusted. At all. How many times does he need to "win" in a year to keep the tariffs off?

Some countries might be willing to negotiate now: but how many times will they negotiate with a guy who never honours his contracts before they realize he will not stop?

I don't have any answers for your questions.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

I am shocked by how

Even if trump was dragged into the street tonight, killed mob style, and the body burned, along with the absolute and unequivocal promise that the economy would be returned to the state it was on nov 5th, 2024: the US's status in the world is still DOA.

Your country cannot be trusted to not do this again. How long until the fascist party gets elected into actual power again? How badly do they hug things up trying to keep it? This could only end with the fall of the american empire: you can either be the kindly old sod, handing out hard earned wisdom on which mistakes to avoid, or just another dead tyrant.

I am shocked by the apathy and inaction of the moneyed classes as Trump destroys them. The guy is way worse for business than Karen Silkwood.

Guess people were wrong to be moved by this speech, it was as purely a fantasy as a lightsaber fight:

 

[Rhinox]

In all seriousness, Trump's previous behavior of 'will he or won't he' on tariffs harms his position here. He has shown that he is untrustworthy, that everything is transactional. He may agree one day, but the next demand something new entirely. There is zero faith that he'll keep his word or that he won't just arbitrarily punish an entire country because one of his psychotic hangers on read something on reddit that made them mad. (looking at you, Loomer)

The tariffs on their own are a bad idea that has absolutely cratered the economy already. The idea that they're a "negotiating tool" is a fantasy pushed by Trump supporters desperate to show that the Orangutan in Chief is playing chess while in reality he's jive on the board and is now drawing funny pictures with the pieces.

 

[Axaday]

The idea that they're a "negotiating tool" is a fantasy pushed by Trump supporters desperate to show that the Orangutan in Chief is playing chess while in reality he's jive on the board and is now drawing funny pictures with the pieces.

Calling it a negotiating tool is a rosy way of talking about it. I believe that the purpose of the tariffs in their purest form is to show everyone in the world how important Donald Trump is. But the negotiating tool part comes in because if a nation comes and kisses his ring and pleads with him for mercy and gives him some kind of tribute that he can display, he is willing to lower or drop the tariff. He sells it as getting America a better deal, but it is really very personal.

 

[Pale Rider]

American Living Standards Are A Sacrifice Trump Is Willing To Make

Trump and his allies say short-term economic pain, through higher prices on consumer goods, is worth the glory that tariffs will bring.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Rhinox]

Calling it a negotiating tool is a rosy way of talking about it. I believe that the purpose of the tariffs in their purest form is to show everyone in the world how important Donald Trump is. But the negotiating tool part comes in because if a nation comes and kisses his ring and pleads with him for mercy and gives him some kind of tribute that he can display, he is willing to lower or drop the tariff. He sells it as getting America a better deal, but it is really very personal.

Of course it is. His entire campaign, his entire political persona and purpose is to have people kiss his ass. Trump is a sociopathic narcist. He demands all bend the knee. This entire campaign was a grievance fueled run for revenge against anyone and everyone, but most especially against people he considered disloyal. He wants everyone to acknowledge him as some kind of god king.

 

[Axaday]

Okay... he's repeatedly proven he can't be trusted. At all. How many times does he need to "win" in a year to keep the tariffs off?

Some countries might be willing to negotiate now: but how many times will they negotiate with a guy who never honours his contracts before they realize he will not stop?

Rumbling in my brain a while I realized I do have a sort of answer to your questions, maybe a really good one.

Look at his first career. He built a lot of real estate and he swindled a lot of people to do it. Contractors in NYC knew that they'd be in court to litigate some of their payment out of him. They kept working with him because he was holding the cards. If you were doing steel or welding or electrical or concrete or whatever in NYC, NOT dealing with Donald Trump was going to leave you out in the cold.

So Vietnam and Madagascar don't TRUST Donald Trump. They just recognize that their economy is dependent on the good graces of the USA and right now the USA doesn't have much grace, but they are dependent even so. They aren't trying to get a good deal. They are trying to get a better one than the one he is throwing at them and they know that they might have to do it again, but they just need to get through 4 years and then see where they are and maybe put some effort into developing other markets. But the point is they don't trust him and it doesn't matter. They have to work with him.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Thank you for the answer man, your insight is appreciated.

It was a rhetorical question, but still appreciated.

 

[Rhinox]

Rumbling in my brain a while I realized I do have a sort of answer to your questions, maybe a really good one.

Look at his first career. He built a lot of real estate and he swindled a lot of people to do it. Contractors in NYC knew that they'd be in court to litigate some of their payment out of him. They kept working with him because he was holding the cards. If you were doing steel or welding or electrical or concrete or whatever in NYC, NOT dealing with Donald Trump was going to leave you out in the cold.

So Vietnam and Madagascar don't TRUST Donald Trump. They just recognize that their economy is dependent on the good graces of the USA and right now the USA doesn't have much grace, but they are dependent even so. They aren't trying to get a good deal. They are trying to get a better one than the one he is throwing at them and they know that they might have to do it again, but they just need to get through 4 years and then see where they are and maybe put some effort into developing other markets. But the point is they don't trust him and it doesn't matter. They have to work with him.

And this is the thing that bothers me. I wanted to say something in the Hasbro thread, but that's not the appropriate place.
Even if there are compelling reasons to do so, bending the knee is still bending the knee. If the world at large tells him to hug off, it may take a month or so, but he'd drop the tariffs if only because his own party would rebel. hug, let them be intact when harvest time comes and watch the midwest suddenly go purple. (blue is a pipe dream) A unified front can stop the bullying. This 'every man/country for themselves' just leaves the whole ripe for further abuse. It gives him ammo to go out there and say he's been right the whole time. I cannot abide that.