Transformers Legacy toyline

[Undead Scottsman]

Revolution came out in 2016, in the middle of the MCU hypetrain when EVERYONE was chasing a shared universe. (And nearly every one crashed and burned)

I don't really see the Hasbroverse as anything more than an extension of that idea, IDW thinks people love seeing stuff they recognize cross over and thus they merge their TF books with their GI Joe book and then added in whatever else they could to try and goose sales, as well as get several more books out a month.

 

[Shadewing]

I'll be honest, that was almost entirely facetious.

I mainly don't like the replacement, with an immediate distaste for it that isn't strictly rational. But here's my current entirely subjective best effort at pinning down why.

I mean, the idea alone that you have to go back and "fix" this thing so that it's cool enough to bring back, rather than just leaving it be this quirky inherited bit, is silly enough. The original is forced in order to spell MASK, but coming up with any new backronym is still conforming to the need to spell that word, so at most it'd be a lateral move. Just lampshade it and move on, maybe.

Mobile, armored, "strike c/kommand" - strong words that hearken to a military squad or strike force with special equipment (masks that are actually helmets) and vehicles (so they're mobile) in particular. The original's main flaw is kludging the spelling of Command so it fits.

Mechanically-advanced, secret knights - the first, compound word is too broad to speak to the specific brand or identity of this group, and can just as easily describe a theme park animatronic or a Rube Goldberg machine. "Secret" just about works; I don't think their agent work was public, since they had day jobs and ducked out to do MASK stuff. So it applies.

And Knights, well. I like knights as an aesthetic and it's a cool word, and "Mobile Armored Strike Knights" is perhaps a decent compromise, if only just to avoid the "Xtreme Kool Letterz" raps. But "Secret Knights" doesn't really click for me with MASK; the sudden swerve into metaphor seems like an attempt to make the first half of the name seem cooler than it is.

But all that's just me, and I'm the sort of weirdo who puts a bit of effort into working "aardvark" into a backronym.

And to me, as long as its two factions of people in vehicles the change from one form to another, that wear teched out masks/helmets... then what does it matter what works make up MASK? Personally I do agree 'Knight' works better since in the broad sense you have "mounted" armored warriors, just those mounts are vehicles and not animals. But I feel Armored is kinda redundant with "knight" there.

 

[Sabrblade]

And the theme song did refer to them as "crusaders".

Spoiler

Batman/MASK crossover comic story when?

 

[LordGigaIce]

I don't really see the Hasbroverse as anything more than an extension of that idea, IDW thinks people love seeing stuff they recognize cross over and thus they merge their TF books with their GI Joe book and then added in whatever else they could to try and goose sales, as well as get several more books out a month.

The reasoning was sound.
"Hasbro has these properties why not do a shared universe?"

Problem was, as I said earlier, Hasbro's IP list is deep on paper, less so in reality. Transformers and MAYBE GI Joe are the only ones with any pop culture currency. They hadn't even bought Power Ranger yet.

So the result was IDW trying to use Transformers to revive a bunch of brands no one cared about. You can't just say "oh yeah MASK exists in the same universe as Optimus Prime, here's Matt Tracker making an off hand reference to him" and expect people to care.
Revolution hinged on Transformers' pop culture relevancy and the fanbase of their Transformers comics being enough to carry a bunch of IPs that hadn't had much of anything since the 80s. And that's one of many wrong ways to establish a shared universe. You can't bluff your way into making something with nothing popular.

I don't think the idea of a "Hasbro universe" is a bad one, but it's going to take a slow build, which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about Skybound's approach.

 

[Shadewing]

Your basically need to make people care. Conceptionally, I can see why you'd want to slot MASK into TF and Joe as an example, as its a mix of both. Two factions, humans with vehicles, vehicles that change form. But it doesn't matter if the characters or story isn't interesting. Though the other side of the coin is how do you make them stand out from the other group(s) of human heroes fighting wars with villianous organizations? Like I could maybe see VENOM as a rival organization to Cobra. I feel like the Destro mini kinda shows such a thing could be a possibility since we know there are other arms manufactures out there. Like some random country gets ahold of cybertronian tech or energon and doesn't want to play nice with Cobra. But MASK as an organization seems harder, without completely changing it.

Regardless, I feel like they would need to do exactly what they are doing with GIJoe to get other properties going, start with singular characters give them a story and build up from there without goinr right into everything established.

 

[lastmaximal]

It's always tricky having GI Joe and Transformers coexist in the same universe because the latter element escalates things immediately. It's hard to isolate and ignore it for the sake of telling GI Joe stories. They're the elephant in the room that always has to be acknowledged because why would a special military strike force not be deployed to deal with this sort of thing?

Unless you keep it to early stages of Infiltration protocol, and culminate with the GI Joes or Cobra or both stumbling upon the facsimiles used by the Decepticons. But from there the state of play has to change. Transformers becomes the Poochie of the world GI Joe inhabits.

Which isn't bad per se because there's plenty of stories to be told with that interaction, but it's a pervasive undercurrent for GI Joe stories that will have to be accounted for. Just shared universe things.

 

[Darth_Prime]

What if this is the Titan version? I’d pay $200.

 

[lastmaximal]

I'd try to pay $200. Eventually, I might even be able to.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I'm desperately pawing at the screen and nothing is happening.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

And yeah, it is IDW's fault. They went to Hasbro to pitch the shaded universe idea, not the other way around.

Hah! "Shaded" works, for all the shade people have thrown at it, doesn't it?

If you're going to do a shaded Hasbro universe then you need to start small. Transformers (their most viable and visible brand) and GI Joe (struggling but probably #2 by default) are the best choices. And just let them grow on their own.

Okay, after the second time, I'm not sure if "shaded" is just am amusingly appropriate typo anymore.

And MAYBE, if things break right, you try a Rom comic down the line or something, and see how that does as a self-contained story before having him meet Optimus Prime.

Someone get ToyHax on it.


I agree with all of this.... I'd just like to see them take their time. IDW pushed the Revolution-verse out at once and in retrospect there were too many IPs not enough people cared about.
I think making Visionaries or Inhumanoids or Rom and the Space Knights work would require it taking time, and rolling them out slowly to let them feel established first.

They really just went full Justice League with it.

You never go full Justice League with it.

And the theme song did refer to them as "crusaders".

Mobile Armored Strike Krusaders?

Problem was, as I said earlier, Hasbro's IP list is deep on paper, less so in reality. Transformers and MAYBE GI Joe are the only ones with any pop culture currency. They hadn't even bought Power Ranger yet.

Wow, could you imagine if they'd made that a part, too?

 

[Exatron]

What if this is the Titan version? I’d pay $200.

This just really highlights the oddity of the fan reaction to me. Star Convoy was a bigger toy than Grandus. In all the artwork I've seen from the manga and story pages, Star Convoy was at least as big as, if not bigger than, Grandus. And yet, while I always see a lot of talk about wanting a Titan Grandus, the biggest response to Titan Star Convoy seems to be that it's going to be too big unless it's a set.

I get it on some level. Standard Optimus should not be a Titan. And Grandus is supposed to be pretty big, and his look gives off a Fort Max-style gargantuan appearance. But Star Convoy is not just a standard Optimus. This isn't like Armada Tidal Wave, where you can pick from either media showing him just a bit bigger than other boys or media showing him to be gigantic. As far as I can tell, everything from the era indicates Grandus should be big, but Star Convoy should be even bigger.

I'm not committing to buying it without seeing it first, but I'm certainly not going to dismiss it as too big just based on the price class.

 

[unluckiness]

Not gonna lie. I'd be somewhat interested by a half-way affordable Grandus just to stand him next to Tor, Pyramidas, the Lost Galaxy carrierzord and the Turbo Artilleryzord as the Multiverse of Grandus

 

[LordGigaIce]

Okay, after the second time, I'm not sure if "shaded" is just am amusingly appropriate typo anymore.

I was reviewing the comics for the front page when Revolution was a thing and I admit I was into it at the time. Like... if you're going to have the Transformers interact with a human military org why not make it GI Joe? The EDC, S7, NEST, GHOST, Skywatch, etc... Transformers is littered with these groups and none have any staying power. Why not just use GI Joe in that role?

But the problem I didn't see at the time was that this isn't the best way to make people wanna check out GI Joe when the Transformers aren't around.

Wow, could you imagine if they'd made that a part, too?

It would be wild.

Though I think Power Rangers might be an IP that's the easiest to tie in to Transformers. lastmaximal pointed out that having Transformers on Earth kind of escalates any status quo for GI Joe vs Cobra or MASK vs VENOM, but Power Rangers is about transforming robots and cosmic threats attacking the Earth.

Seems like an easier time fitting that in with Transformers.

 

[Sabrblade]

This just really highlights the oddity of the fan reaction to me. Star Convoy was a bigger toy than Grandus. In all the artwork I've seen from the manga and story pages, Star Convoy was at least as big as, if not bigger than, Grandus. And yet, while I always see a lot of talk about wanting a Titan Grandus, the biggest response to Titan Star Convoy seems to be that it's going to be too big unless it's a set.

Just goes to show that Grandus oughtn't be a Titan of his own, either.

I get it on some level. Standard Optimus should not be a Titan. And Grandus is supposed to be pretty big, and his look gives off a Fort Max-style gargantuan appearance. But Star Convoy is not just a standard Optimus. This isn't like Armada Tidal Wave, where you can pick from either media showing him just a bit bigger than other boys or media showing him to be gigantic. As far as I can tell, everything from the era indicates Grandus should be big, but Star Convoy should be even bigger.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: They are big guys, yes, but not as big as Cityformers like Fort Max and Metroplex. They're more like the height of Combiners.

 

[Cybersnark]

I was reviewing the comics for the front page when Revolution was a thing and I admit I was into it at the time. Like... if you're going to have the Transformers interact with a human military org why not make it GI Joe? The EDC, S7, NEST, GHOST, Skywatch, etc...

For that matter, with Prime's MECH, we have a VENOM analogue all ready to go.

Though I think Power Rangers might be an IP that's the easiest to tie in to Transformers. lastmaximal pointed out that having Transformers on Earth kind of escalates any status quo for GI Joe vs Cobra or MASK vs VENOM, but Power Rangers is about transforming robots and cosmic threats attacking the Earth.

Seems like an easier time fitting that in with Transformers.

You could even build in a lore connection: Zordon (or whoever built the Zords) was originally affiliated with the Quintessons (or maybe even a Quintesson themselves); the Zords are based on the same technology that would go on to become the Transformers, just with organic pilots subbed in for the sparks (the Rangers' suits allow them to link up to their Zords symbiotically).

For that matter, maybe Morphing is the predecessor technology for binary bonding (explaining how humanoids who go through the BB process are able to physically transform --and even setting the stage for Masterforce's Master-Braces).

Meanwhile, MASK's technology is the "third generation" human-made attempt (with the Masks as the brain/machine interfaces), made by studying the Transformers without the benefit of Quintesson science or Cybertronian nano-manufacturing capability.

(If Hasbro could acquire Robotech, they could even work it in as the future version of MASK, with the helmets streamlined into "Thinking Caps" and the Veritechs as the mass-produced human equivalents of Seekers.)

 

[lastmaximal]

And Zordon has a brother, Zoidon, who built the Zoids, so we can work even more stuff into this...

 

[Sabrblade]

For that matter, with Prime's MECH, we have a VENOM analogue all ready to go.

Funny, people were comparing MECH more to Cobra at the time.

 

[Cybersnark]

Funny, people were comparing MECH more to Cobra at the time.

True, but Cobra-plus-obsession-with-transforming-tech kinda leads inevitably to Venom.

I know Cobra loved their sci-fi superweapons, but they always struck me as the more "analogue" terrorists, just with fancy-yet-ultimately-conventional gear.

 

[Shadewing]

Yes, conventional gear like fully robotic soliders...

 

[wonko the sane?]

*coughenergonuniversecough*