We already dumped a bunch of Hitler speeches into space, I think that (space)ship sailed.
Transformers: One - New Animated Prequel coming September 20th, 2024 - New Toy Official Images!
- Thread starter Undead Scottsman
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We already dumped a bunch of Hitler speeches into space, I think that (space)ship sailed.
The first trailer offered a “pedestrian” animated film impression, granted, and while I think the marketing got better (and I, personally, saw more ads for Transformers than Wild Robot), I think the differences between our IMPRESSIONS of the marketing speak to broader issues in marketing, in general.
Again, on the few TV channels I watched, I saw more exposure to Transformers One. Depending on what ad venues you watched, you might have seen more for Wild Robot. And I think it’s worth reiterating that Wild Robot had a REALLY soft opening and has largely succeeded by word of mouth and the uniqueness of the concept.
I think a valid argument can be made that TFOne had an impossible uphill battle brought on by Hasbro’s own hefty investments and exposure. As good as it was, how good it was produced…Hasbro invested a LOT in prior series that are easily available and (in snippet comparisons) looked practically as good. There are nearly a half dozen different (legal) venues I can jump onto RIGHT NOW and watch Transformers Prime and/or its finale special. Earthspark is on Paramount+ and Nickelodeon (and now, Netflix). In short bursts, both offer visuals VERY comparable to TFOne.
Unlike, say, Ninja Turtles whose recent film features a distinctive art style that was clearly above what the average series could do (you can SEE the budget differences between the film and its sequel series). It is a LOT harder to compared TFOne to Prime or Earthspark in short bursts and unequivocally say “Transformers One is offering something I can’t get on TV”.
Not to pontificate TOO much, but…
I think that issue isn’t restricted to Transformers, but to a LOT of these big media investments in streaming shows. There IS such a thing as too much of a good thing, franchise fatigue is a real thing. Companies like Disney (and Hasbro, to a lesser extent), invested so much into these streaming shows to grow their brand(s), that it has made theatrical releases THAT much more difficult to stand apart. I feel The Mandalorian has largely sated a good chunk of the demand for “classic Star Wars adventures” to the point I think the only way a film will work will be as a “series finale”. I think the lackluster receptions to ObiWan and Acolyte have impaired the value in a Rey Skywalker film (or films).
At this stage, I’d much rather stay home and watch Daredevil on D+ (which I pay for as part of my overall streaming package with Hulu), than trudge out and pay $25+ to watch a bunch of C list characters in Thunderbolts. Captain America Brave New World continues where Falcon and Winter Soldier (which I enjoyed) left off, while Fantastic Four is clearly something a spectacle above what Disney wants on D+.
Going back to Transformers, as I said, Hasbro two highest profile series in the past 15 years (Prime and Earthspark) offered compellingly strong visuals that TFOne had a hard time distinguishing itself from. I’m not sure any amount of marketing would have been enough to overcome that.
Funny, Thunderbolts is probably the only superhero film I'm even minorly looking forward to now.
I'm not sure "I donno guys, Prime and Earthspark were just TOO GOOD and that's why TFO failed" is a compelling argument. Prime ended eleven years prior to TFO being released. I don't think it affected anyone's decision to see or not see the film one iota.
And while I'm sure you did see a lot of TFO ads, you seem to be an exception rather than the rule. I saw the occasional tv spot, but Wild Robot lapped it based on what I observed, accounting for tv ads, online ads, and pre-movie trailers for other films. And judging from others' experiences in just this thread.... I don't think I'm alone in thinking that TFO's marketing left something to be desired.
It looked like an animated film full of MCU-levels of humour, at a time when the MCU's formulaic approach to franchise projects is coming under increased scrutiny.
I'd say TFO's failings were....
1- marketing. The first trailer didn't do the actual movie justice, and later trailers, while better, didn't get enough penetration to overcome the bad to lukewarm first impressions.
2- timing. RotB was a year ago, and under-performed by Hasbro and Paramount's standards. It also tended to skew closer to the Bayverse films (without even the benefit of Bay's stylistic flare) then Bumblebee, which had won critics back after TLK. Given everything it may have been preferable to hold off on TFO for a year or even two, just to give people time to want to see Transformers in movie theatres again.
3- timing, again. September wasn't a great month to release it in. It's been gone over before, but kids go back to school in September, meaning there's less time for family and kid-oriented movies.
"What about Beetlejuice Beetlejuice and The Wild Robot?" That's kinda the point? It's not that kids don't see movies during the school year, it's that they have less time to see them. Bettlejuice Beetlejuice got to ride both the Tim Burton rivial train and cash in on thirty-five years worth of nosatlgia with a beloved leading man in a classic role. The Wld Robot was just marketed better than TFO. So if you're a parent and you have a free weekend to take the kids to a movie in busy as heck September when school is starting up...TFO is like... the third option down. Optimistically speaking. Whereas a summer release at the very least sees kids with more free time and thus more oppertunities to hit the theatres.
That's true, and it ties in with my second point.
Only it's more than that. Transformers wishes it could use "too much of a good thing" as an excuse, but it can't. AoE did gangbusters off of a strong China release, but between that cooling off via international relations getting worse and the audience just not finding the quasi-status quo rebot AoE set up appealing.... TLK suffered. Bad. And then Bumblebee, which everyone seemed to agree was a step in the right direction, did worse. And then RotB, which had a complicated reception, did worse then that.
This isn't the MCU where it's just too much good to "eh it's alright" content created a glut and people are tapping out. This is a franchise that, with the one two punch that was AoE and TLK, killed its audience good will and the markedly improved films that came later just haven't won any of that good will back.
Word of mouth for TFO has been mostly positive though, and it hasn't made a difference. People just didn't want to see this movie. I agree with you that the film itself did nothing wrong, and I don't think any one thing doomed it. There were reasons though, and they've been pretty thoroughly combed over.
I watch Pluto TV regularly and see ads for TFO on there all the time... Because Pluto TV is owned by Paramount.
I’m necessarily saying THAT. My argument is that, in the short snippets TV spots and Trailers are able to provide, TFOne didn’t come across as visually more compelling that two of the more recent Transformers series, be it Earthspark or Prime (which is readily available through numerous, legal, venues).
Outside of Pixar/Disney/Dreamworks, the more successful animated films have often skewed towards unique visual styles, be it moving Lego blocks or the comic-stylings of Spiderverse or TMNT Mutant Mayhem. TFOne just kind of looked like another variation of the high quality CGI that isn’t hard to find for little to no cost.
Side note: With the rise of streaming and “need for MOAR content”, when a series ended is not as relevant as it used to be, IMO. Pluto or Amazon Freevee or Tubi offer content and series decades old, including full channels dedicated to shows which ended before some of us were born. I can turn on Pluto or Freevee’s Transformers Channel and have an even chance of watching Prime, RiD15, or Animated RIGHT NOW.
Maybe THAT’S why I saw it so regularlyI watch Pluto TV regularly and see ads for TFO on there all the time... Because Pluto TV is owned by Paramount.
. I also saw ads a good bit on NFL Network and Weather Channel.
There were a lot of missteps when it came to marketing TFO but I'm sorry... I can't get on board with that. I don't think any general audience member saw TFO's trailers and went "it looks like Prime and EarthSpark, pass."
I think there were multiple other reasons people passed on TFO, if they were even aware of it, and I do think that animation style may have played a roll, but I don't think "looks similar to two shows the general audience probably isn't that familiar with" was why.
For some smaller good news, earlier today I watched a video from a Thomas YouTuber who went over the history of the Thomas films and episodes playing in movie theaters, and he began the video with a short introductory section in which he went over his fascination with cinema in general and, completely off topic to the main subject of the video, basically went out of his way to say that he went to see Transformers One on opening day and called it "peak cinema".
Even non-TF fans who are knee deep in other non-TF fandoms love this TF movie.
Even non-TF fans who are knee deep in other non-TF fandoms love this TF movie.
Here's hoping that home video and streaming make for a good turnaround.
Want TFOne to succeed? Buy it on disc! And then buy it for someone else on disc (it's the time of Holiday Giving, after all)!
Then if you've got Paramount or whatever, stream that sucker. Stream it a lot. Leave it on for your cats and dogs to watch while you go run some errands. Induct the next generation when you're watching someone's kids. Host a movie night with your friends!
And keep talking about it on social media.
It's a different landscape, and I don't think the box office necessarily marks the end of anything in this day and age. There are some things people want to see, but don't want to pay for the experience -- that is, the movie theater experience -- of seeing.
Red One? Sure, I'd watch it. Like Hell you're getting my wife and I to drop the better part of a hundred Canadian on a night out for it, though. (Current financial woes notwithstanding...)
But if people watch it at home and like it, they might pay for that experience for a sequel.
There's so much data and analysis and algorithms now, you just know they're counting every instance. This is where we put it to work for us.
Want TFOne to succeed? Buy it on disc! And then buy it for someone else on disc (it's the time of Holiday Giving, after all)!
Then if you've got Paramount or whatever, stream that sucker. Stream it a lot. Leave it on for your cats and dogs to watch while you go run some errands. Induct the next generation when you're watching someone's kids. Host a movie night with your friends!
And keep talking about it on social media.
It's a different landscape, and I don't think the box office necessarily marks the end of anything in this day and age. There are some things people want to see, but don't want to pay for the experience -- that is, the movie theater experience -- of seeing.
Red One? Sure, I'd watch it. Like Hell you're getting my wife and I to drop the better part of a hundred Canadian on a night out for it, though. (Current financial woes notwithstanding...)
But if people watch it at home and like it, they might pay for that experience for a sequel.
There's so much data and analysis and algorithms now, you just know they're counting every instance. This is where we put it to work for us.
I don't disagree with brand fatigue, but I'd contend it's movie vs movie, not movie vs the various shows.
Transformers as a theatrical thing needed a break. Needs a break.
After this long of being a constant presence in theaters, it gets harder to create a fresh and interesting experience that's worth seeking out. Improving the writing and substance will only do so much -- it absolutely will do good things for the brand's image as a quality viewing experience, but it's not going to create the impact they were hoping for. Not when it's the nth of so many installments.
It's a rough situation. "It's 2023, we just released a big blockbuster. In a year's time, well release another movie for the 40th anniversary year." But they're too close together to make the latter feel like an event, especially given how last year's movie returned the theatrical releases to the old shallow, explodey, overstuffed spectacle formula. Marketing this movie now has to be able to create the impression that this will feel completely different and more substantial.
All after ten-plus years of the big-screen visual spectacle becoming familiar enough that it's not the hook it once was, however impressive it still is.
And then of course marketing dropped the ball on all of it anyway, and they scheduled the movie between, indeed AWAY from, two potentially profitable seasons (summer and holiday).
I don't know. There's a universe where this was a holiday release that proved a refreshing surprise that offered a good capper to the year, in a month when (let's face it) we need any goddamn distraction we can get from what life has become and will yet become. There's another universe where this was a summer release and struggled a bit against the actual events it released alongside, but good word of mouth in a strong "let's see a movie" season helped it do better than this.
There's yet another universe where somehow someway Hasbro and Paramount saw delays impacting ROTB and decided to (more likely, were ABLE to) hold back on it until 2025, to build anticipation for THIS movie, that would carry the big anniversary year without any other theatrical releases halving the oxygen in the room.
Transformers as a theatrical thing needed a break. Needs a break.
After this long of being a constant presence in theaters, it gets harder to create a fresh and interesting experience that's worth seeking out. Improving the writing and substance will only do so much -- it absolutely will do good things for the brand's image as a quality viewing experience, but it's not going to create the impact they were hoping for. Not when it's the nth of so many installments.
It's a rough situation. "It's 2023, we just released a big blockbuster. In a year's time, well release another movie for the 40th anniversary year." But they're too close together to make the latter feel like an event, especially given how last year's movie returned the theatrical releases to the old shallow, explodey, overstuffed spectacle formula. Marketing this movie now has to be able to create the impression that this will feel completely different and more substantial.
All after ten-plus years of the big-screen visual spectacle becoming familiar enough that it's not the hook it once was, however impressive it still is.
And then of course marketing dropped the ball on all of it anyway, and they scheduled the movie between, indeed AWAY from, two potentially profitable seasons (summer and holiday).
I don't know. There's a universe where this was a holiday release that proved a refreshing surprise that offered a good capper to the year, in a month when (let's face it) we need any goddamn distraction we can get from what life has become and will yet become. There's another universe where this was a summer release and struggled a bit against the actual events it released alongside, but good word of mouth in a strong "let's see a movie" season helped it do better than this.
There's yet another universe where somehow someway Hasbro and Paramount saw delays impacting ROTB and decided to (more likely, were ABLE to) hold back on it until 2025, to build anticipation for THIS movie, that would carry the big anniversary year without any other theatrical releases halving the oxygen in the room.
There was a five year gap between Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts. I don't think it helped much, to be honest.
To be fair, stuff was kind of happening in those five years, and our sense of time has definitely been warped.
It doesn't help that the first theatrical thing greeting people after that was Transformers: More of The Same.
It doesn't help that the first theatrical thing greeting people after that was Transformers: More of The Same.
And yet, It lasted forever in theaters. It didn't do huge box office numbers, but it remained in theaters and contined to get solid revune even when a lot of other bigger newer movies came out. Fnu kept a running tally of how long it lasted. It had more staying power then people give it credit for.
ROTB was also originally supposed to release in 2022 but was delayed to 2023 thanks to the pandemic.
And had TF One released in the holiday season, it still would have faced heavy competition from Wicked, Gladiator 2, Moana 2, and the still-forthcoming expected mega-hit Sonic the Hedgehog 3.
And had TF One released in the holiday season, it still would have faced heavy competition from Wicked, Gladiator 2, Moana 2, and the still-forthcoming expected mega-hit Sonic the Hedgehog 3.
RotB just didn't open in enough theaters in the first place, which gave it a low ceiling and masked how well it was actually doing on a per-theater basis. Its performance really didn't drop off that much. It just got crowded out by the sheer volume of releases. Theaters held on to it until they ran out of screens.
Sadly, TFOne's per-theater numbers were abysmal and probably killed any goodwill RotB earned.
Sadly, TFOne's per-theater numbers were abysmal and probably killed any goodwill RotB earned.
Plus, I'm sure that getting the movie out early enough to make kids want the toys before the Christmas buying season was over was a factor. A Christmas release is too late for that.
More like two or three months earlier. Schools start insanely early in August now.
when schools start in florida is not reflective of when the school year starts in the normal parts of the country
I'd have released it in early July.