Transformers: One - New Animated Prequel coming September 20th, 2024 - New Toy Official Images!

[Haywire]

We longtimers in this fandom may think we know what's best, but it's experiences like this that just show how far out of tune we old-timers are with the younger generations of today.

I guess it's important to distinguish between Good, Popular, and Successful, and remember that the three are not necessarily going to converge. I'm personally proud to be out of tune with the younger generation.

I have a lot of nostalgia for it, so I can power through a rewatch, but I tried watching the 80's GI Joe toon for the first time since I was a kid (and I barely watched it then) and it just wasn't grabbing me, even though quality-wise it's on par with Transformers.

Honestly, the GI Joe toon is better-written than Transformers, but there's still lots of filler episodes. Best to pick and choose a few of the quality ones:

Spoiler

Don Glut's requisite dinosaur episode, "Primordial Plot", does Jurassic Park lite (before Jurassic Park, even!)

"The Wrong Stuff" has Cobra nearly succeed in conquering the world by controlling television

"There's No Place Like Springfield" is a dark and moody psychological mystery in 2 parts that borrows beats from The Prisoner. It helps to watch "Memories of Mara" first, but you can kind of pick up the gist of the backstory without it.

"Worlds Without End", a similarly moody alternate-reality 2-part story where Cobra defeated GI Joe.

And, less serious, but personal favorites, "The Viper Is Coming" and "Eau De Cobra", the first is a 20-ish minute setup for a summer camp skit punchline that just works, while the latter has my favorite line ever from Cobra Commander describing his underlings.

There are plenty more, but I don't really mean to derail the thread with GI Joe discussion.

 

[Shadewing]

I guess it's important to distinguish between Good, Popular, and Successful, and remember that the three are not necessarily going to converge. I'm personally proud to be out of tune with the younger generation.



Honestly, the GI Joe toon is better-written than Transformers, but there's still lots of filler episodes. Best to pick and choose a few of the quality ones:

Spoiler

Don Glut's requisite dinosaur episode, "Primordial Plot", does Jurassic Park lite (before Jurassic Park, even!)

"The Wrong Stuff" has Cobra nearly succeed in conquering the world by controlling television

"There's No Place Like Springfield" is a dark and moody psychological mystery in 2 parts that borrows beats from The Prisoner. It helps to watch "Memories of Mara" first, but you can kind of pick up the gist of the backstory without it.

"Worlds Without End", a similarly moody alternate-reality 2-part story where Cobra defeated GI Joe.

And, less serious, but personal favorites, "The Viper Is Coming" and "Eau De Cobra", the first is a 20-ish minute setup for a summer camp skit punchline that just works, while the latter has my favorite line ever from Cobra Commander describing his underlings.

There are plenty more, but I don't really mean to derail the thread with GI Joe discussion.

I'm not sure I'd call any 80's cartoon episodes "filler" that would require, imo, an actual on going plot which those episodes deviate from. But this is an 80's cartoon before narrative driven cartoon series were a thing. That said, I do agree that the good episodes of GIjoe are really damn good episodes, while a lot of the series is mid at best.

 

[Undead Scottsman]

Honestly, the big reason I stopped is I had just watched a 5 episode miniseries that culiminated in Cobra Commander being captured and I wanted to see how he escaped, only for the next miniseries to immediately start with him free.

 

[Sabrblade]

Honestly, the big reason I stopped is I had just watched a 5 episode miniseries that culiminated in Cobra Commander being captured and I wanted to see how he escaped, only for the next miniseries to immediately start with him free.

I had a similar issue with Challenge of the GoBots, wherein its first five-part mini-series ended with Cy-Kill defeated but still on the loose out in space, only for the next five-part mini-series to inexplicably begin with him already captured.

Luckily, unlike G.I. Joe, GoBots actually has a fix for this discrepancy: Simply placing the standalone episode "Lost of GoBotron" between the two mini-series helps to bridge the gap between the two, since,

• The Guardians' human friends act like that episode is the first time they've ever been to GoBotron before (they also go to GoBotron at the beginning of the second mini-series but don't act like it's their first time visiting),
• The reason for their visit is to attend a peace conference being held of GoBotron, as diplomatic representatives of Earth (UNECOM did not yet exist in the first mini-series but is already a thing by the time of the second mini-series; Matt, Nick and A.J. representing Earth at the peace conference in this episode works well to coincide with UNECOM's off-screen establishment happening between the two mini-series),
• Cy-Kill appears in the ep without either Crasher or Cop-Tur (both of whom were captured at the end of the first mini-series and are seen at the start of the second mini-series locked up, along with the inexplicably captured Cy-Kill but see below); the only other Renegade who appears in the episode is Fly Trap,
• Cy-Kill is defeated at the end of the episode and actually doesn't escape like he does at the end of literally every other standalone episode in the series, instead being pinned down by a collapsing wall, allowing him to theoretically fall into Guardian custody by the episode's end (even if his arrest occurred off-screen)

 

[Haywire]

Honestly, the big reason I stopped is I had just watched a 5 episode miniseries that culiminated in Cobra Commander being captured and I wanted to see how he escaped, only for the next miniseries to immediately start with him free.

I can understand that; I like the GI Joe 5-parters, but they are not truly the best of the series (and, honestly, Pyramid of Darkness, the worst of the 3, has some of my favorite moments in the series, so )

 

[CoffeeHorse]

(I will reiterate what I've said previously elsewhere about Bay's expertise at crafting memorable, actually technically-clever visuals.)

And maintaining a sane budget while doing it. He had other directors scratching their heads wondering how he did what he did. Judging by today's budgets they still haven't figured it out.

There's a guy at my job who will defend the Star Wars prequels up and down.

They're better than you remember.

 

[Undead Scottsman]

And maintaining a sane budget while doing it. He had other directors scratching their heads wondering how he did what he did. Judging by today's budgets they still haven't figured it out.



They're better than you remember.

I liked them more at the time than I do now, so no they're not.

I was much worse at noticing bad acting and digital effects back then.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I'll defend '07 and DotM when it comes to Bay.

RotF, AoE, and TLK are terribad and anyone who puts them above Bumblebee or TFO has a poison in the mind.
But I will give him this. Even those movies, at their worst, had stunning cinematography.

Lots of people have attempted to ape Bay's style and no one's pulled it off.

They're better than you remember.

The Prequels are deeply flawed films, and AotC might be one of the worst franchise movies ever made, but at the very least they were George Lucas' uncompromised vision.

One nutcase billionaire's artistic vision brought to life is seemingly quaint considering the Sequel trilogy had no overarching plan and seemed cobbled together from focus groups.

 

[Sabrblade]

But I will give him this. Even those movies, at their worst, had stunning cinematography.

I feel like that's what my coworker was focusing on more than anything else, as he also completely disregarded any and all of TLK's storytelling flaws. When I tried to describe to him what an absolute mess that movie is, he just rolled his eyes at me like I was just ranting and raving like some lunatic hater.

The only positive I will give TLK is that I unabashedly love the opening scene with King Arthur, Merlin, and the Guardian Knights. But once it switches to the present day, the movie becomes a dumpster fire from then on.

 

[Undead Scottsman]

AoE has a the Romeo and Juliet Law scene. That immediately invalidates any attempt to justify that movies existence.

 

[LordGigaIce]

The only positive I will give TLK is that I unabashedly love the opening scene with King Arthur, Merlin, and the Guardian Knights. But once it switches to the present day, the movie becomes a dumpster fire from then on.

That stuff is so good. I want an entire movie or show or comic dedicated to stuff like that.

I'll always praise Bay as a visual storyteller. He's got an eye for filmmaking few do. It's just that RotF, AoE, and TLK were bad in every other way

AoE has a the Romeo and Juliet Law scene. That immediately invalidates any attempt to justify that movies existence.

We know Paramount had to beg Bay to come back after DotM and he only agreed to do AoE and TLK if they'd fund Pain and Gain (underrated gem by the way).

Part of me thinks the Romeo and Juliet Law stuff was put in there because Bay really didn't want to be there and just said "f it I'll be as nuts as possible until they say stop. I bet they won't."

 

[Sabrblade]

Part of me thinks the Romeo and Juliet Law stuff was put in there because Bay really didn't want to be there and just said "f it I'll be as nuts as possible until they say stop. I bet they won't."

And when they didn't, he must have gone, "Okay, if statutory rape doesn't bother them, I'll go as far as to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate. I dare them to say no!"

 

[CoffeeHorse]

The Prequels are deeply flawed films, and AotC might be one of the worst franchise movies ever made, but at the very least they were George Lucas' uncompromised vision.

AOTC suffered a lot in the editing room. Extended fan edits help it a lot. Given how long and slow it already is you'd think making it longer would be the opposite of what it needs, but no. The deleted scenes were all written for a reason.

George really wasn't doing the Flash Gordon thing anymore. He was going for sweeping historical epics, in space. The pacing was deliberate.

 

[Shadewing]

Re: Star Wars:

It feels like ever since I've been alive; EVERY new Star Wars project has been "the worst thing ever that ruined Star Wars." First it was ROTJ, then Ewoks, then the remasters, then the prequels, and now literally anything Disney seems to release. You can say it's whoever's fualt; but Star Wars fans have hated Star Wars since the 80s. I remember how people cheered becuase Lucas sold Star Wars, becuase they didn't want any more of his vision. Now they don't want any more of anyone else's vision either.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

People also complained about ESB until they decided that they actually love it.

In fairness, the idea of a trilogy with a cliffhanger in the middle was very new. It didn't take that long for people to change their minds. But still.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Have to admit, I agree with the general consensus that the film ideally needed a release date earlier in the year. (And why the months-long delay in getting a cinema release in my part of the world? It isn’t 1989 any more.)

What else was happening there at the time? Any big pictures they wouldn't want to compete with?

"The Wrong Stuff" has Cobra nearly succeed in conquering the world by controlling television

I can understand that; I like the GI Joe 5-parters, but they are not truly the best of the series (and, honestly, Pyramid of Darkness, the worst of the 3, has some of my favorite moments in the series, so )

I'm a fan of Arise, Serpentor, Arise, personally.

 

[Shadewing]

Its almost depressing how ******* accurate that is...

 

[LordGigaIce]

Now they don't want any more of anyone else's vision either.

I think both JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson have valid and interesting visions for Star Wars. Would have been nice if either was given a proper trilogy to explore them.
It was the lack of an overall vision and Disney scrambling to react to the last outrage that irked me. It was very start-stop, and I have to think this could have been avoided if someone had just written like... a basic three movie outline before they started.

George Lucas just ho-humming his way through the PT while sipping his Starbucks and making the movies he wanted to make seems rather nice in comparison.

 

[Shadewing]

I think both JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson have valid and interesting visions for Star Wars. Would have been nice if either was given a proper trilogy to explore them.
It was the lack of an overall vision and Disney scrambling to react to the last outrage that irked me. It was very start-stop, and I have to think this could have been avoided if someone had just written like... a basic three movie outline before they started.

George Lucas just ho-humming his way through the PT while sipping his Starbucks and making the movies he wanted to make seems rather nice in comparison.

Oh I don't disagree that the main issue with the ST is that it wasn't pre-planned rather then who was in the director's seat; but I also feel the way it did go was influenced by fan reaction. The first movie people largely complained that it was too safe and too much like what came before; which to me is fine for a starting point. So then the next movie, they go an entirely different direction to be more original, and then we get complaints about how its now nothing like star wars and such. After that it feels like Disney tries to course correct as hard as it can, bringing back Abrams and trying to tie it all together with, imo one of the worst movies in existance, not just SW.

I like and can rewatch TFA and TLJ, they aren't perfect movies but there are things about them that I enjoy and some of those things I like the fandom hates entirely; but RoS there are only two moments in the entire movie I enjoy, and both are roughly the same thing: "Main character has vision of past character, that helps set them straight" Those were the only parts of the movie I found any enjoyment in. I've seen it twice, and both times it just pisses me the hug off with how stupid it is.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

To this day, I've never rewatched Rise of Skywalker in its entirety. I'm an easy mark for STar Wars stuff...but RoS? I will die on the hill that is one of worst pieces of main Star Wars media ever produced.

And that includes The Holiday Special