Thread of Thoughts, Questions (and Maybe Even Answers) That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Furman (who ironically created the whole Machina ex Deo aspect to the Matrix) didn't seem to think so, if the original Matrix Quest was any indication.
I'm not sure that panel implies anything one way or the other regarding the Matrix's morality.

Regardless, prior to Nova Prime's introduction Matrix bearers were universally depicted as good characters, implying a sort of "pure of heart" (or "pure of spark") requirement. That Optimus was a pretty swell guy and that the Matrix chose Hot Rod, the prototypical hero's journey protagonist added to that. Heck, fast forward today and the Matrix of TFO rejects the traitorous Sentinel only to be given to the noble Orion Pax after he sacrifices himself for the greater good.
It all gives the hint that there's some moral requirement to be made a Prime.

The issue that introduces Nova Prime even leans on that with Optimus saying that Primes embody a sort of standard that defines their era.

And when we learn that Nova broke bad, Optimus is angry and shocked that a Prime could be corrupt like that.

Let's ignore that this makes no sense since IDW1 Optimus is well aware that Nominus, Sentinel, and Zeta were corrupt... Furman can't be blamed if later writers messed with his plots.

Point is that at the moment Optimus learns the truth about Nova he's our viewpoint character. Like Optimus the franchise has trained us to believe that to be a Prime, to be chosen by the Matrix, is to be a good person. Optimus' shock is our own shock.

And that's what made IDW Nova Prime so interesting. He was someone chosen by the Matrix who was a genocidal expansionist.
What does that say about our preconceived notions about the Matrix's sense of morality, or our assumptions about it? Was Nova always a prick or did something happen to turn a noble Prime bad?

We get hints of this through the -iation series. When Nova-turned-Nemesis finally confronts Optimus he says the Matrix was "a leash of good intentions" which so tantalizing a lore drop about what the Matrix is, how it chooses Primes, and what it was that caused Nova to go rogue.

All of this made Nova potentially the most interesting villain in Transformers in a good while, but all of that was squandered when IDW1's later writers had every Prime between Nova and Optimus also be a prick.

Suddenly Nova wasn't this intriguing corrupt Prime whose existence beckoned all sorts of questions, he was just part of a larger chain of evil Primes that just served to make everything less interesting.
 
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lastmaximal

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I like the idea that the Matrix, if containing the wisdom (more than anything else) of past Autobot leaders, reacts differently to its later bearers depending on a number of factors, including their overall character, readiness to learn or earnestness to grow. And maybe the whatevers residing in it have some say over what effects to deploy against those it perceives as a threat, which work differently or not at all depending on the threat.

Nova saw it as a leash, other leaders may have kept their distance and used it as a tool to avoid any effect on them, Hot Rod was a rough-starting kid with aspirations and potential, Scourge was a doo doo head, Galvatron only ever kept it on a chain or as a weird haunted battery for his cannon.

I'm now also wondering about leaders and culture prior to Nova. Shockwave's entire time travel shenanigans clouded the legends and lore with exhausting plot twist crap, but this legendary thing had to have come from somewhere other than Shane McCarthy's disregard for pre-him IDW canon.

Hm. A quick wiki-check reminds me that Ring is Primus here, and he made the Matrix, and it was a map to a peaceful death on Mederi, and then an artifact for the "actually just some tribal randos" thirteen, and nothing much until Nova. Yeah, I'm starting to see CoffeeHorse's distaste for the stuff, as plot twist after plot twist takes lofty possibilities and renders them so flat and plain. This is why it's sometimes preferable to leave certain things shrouded in legend, the whole literary iceberg of it all. (At the same time, I did enjoy these stories as they were being told, so I'm conflicted.)
 
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Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
IDW1 really did go out of its way to be as subversive a take on traditional Transformers storytelling as possible.
 

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
Galvatron's cannon: bicep or forearm?
In theory, I like forearm better. I never really liked the idea of cannons mounting to the upper arms. Even where it's locked in as a part of the design, like on the seekers, it still just seems weird to me.

In Galvatron's case, though, having such a large cannon with the mounting point all the way at the back end makes forearm mounting its own special level of awkward. So bicep it is for me.
 

lastmaximal

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FOOL! GALVATRON'S CANNON CAN BE ANY BODY PART IT WA--

I mean yeah, I prefer a higher mounting point too, in general. Lets him do the "cannon pointing down while he makes a menacing raised fist" pose. But it's nice to have both options.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Give him two cannons and put one on each bicep and he'll look like he's trying to outdo Starscream in the null ray department
 
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Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
I showed my wife the Liokaiser reveal video last night, of course introducing them as the Breastforce. She, of course, gave an eyeroll of disgust, spent a while grumbling, and asked just, "Why?" I, of course, answered, "Because Japan."

It did get me thinking a bit though:

Headmasters
Targetmasters
Powermasters
Godmasters
Brainmasters
Breastmastersforce

...Why? I mean, Hasbro extended the -masters terminology to other groups (Micromasters & Action Masters), but the Breastforce is the only G1 group I can think of on either the Hasbro or Takara side where bots using the play pattern of the complete bot having a part of them transform into a smaller bot DOESN'T have a -master group name. Would Breastmaster have sounded creepy even in Japan?
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
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Turning into animals instead of humanoids distinguishes them enough from all the 'masters, I would think.
 

Haywire

Collecter of Gobots and Godzilla
Citizen
...Why? I mean, Hasbro extended the -masters terminology to other groups (Micromasters & Action Masters), but the Breastforce is the only G1 group I can think of on either the Hasbro or Takara side where bots using the play pattern of the complete bot having a part of them transform into a smaller bot DOESN'T have a -master group name. Would Breastmaster have sounded creepy even in Japan?

I assumed it was to match with the Dinoforce from the same series?
 

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
Turning into animals instead of humanoids distinguishes them enough from all the 'masters, I would think.
Maybe! I have yet to watch Victory all the way through, but everything I've seen suggests it doesn't touch on much about either the Brainmasters or Breastforce partners. Given how other characters with animal bot modes have been handled, I could see them distinguishing based on that.

It wouldn’t sound any more or less creepy there because it’s just a foreign way to say chest as far they know. Goes as far back as Mazinger Z’s Breast Fire attack as far as I know.

I can't even think of a Japanese use of the English word "breast" that isn't specifically referring to a breastplate.
Kinda what I'd figured, but that just made it all that much stranger that they wouldn't use the normal naming convention.

I assumed it was to match with the Dinoforce from the same series?
But the Brainmasters weren't named the Brainforce to match the Multiforce. So even just within Victory, there's no common convention.
 

lastmaximal

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Were they using -master as something specifically connected to the planet Master? Just guessing, entirely unfamiliar.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I showed my wife the Liokaiser reveal video last night, of course introducing them as the Breastforce. She, of course, gave an eyeroll of disgust, spent a while grumbling, and asked just, "Why?" I, of course, answered, "Because Japan."

It did get me thinking a bit though:

Headmasters
Targetmasters
Powermasters
Godmasters
Brainmasters
Breastmastersforce

...Why? I mean, Hasbro extended the -masters terminology to other groups (Micromasters & Action Masters), but the Breastforce is the only G1 group I can think of on either the Hasbro or Takara side where bots using the play pattern of the complete bot having a part of them transform into a smaller bot DOESN'T have a -master group name. Would Breastmaster have sounded creepy even in Japan?
In JG1, those with the "-master" suffix tend to have their unique technology either originate from or have ties to Planet Master in some form. This includes Headmasters, Targetmasters, Headmaster Juniors, Godmasters, Powermasters, and even Brainmasters--but in the latter's case, it's inverse of how all the others involve small units bonding to/partnering with a larger unit, in that the smaller Brain robots are basically avatars or tiny Transtectors that the larger Brainmasters can transfer their consciousnesses into in order to interact on a smaller scale.

The Breastforce's Breast Animals are basically animalistic drones who share a similar relationship to their larger masters as Soundwave's minions do to him, but somewhat less intelligent than the cartoon versions of Ravage, Laserbeak, Buzzsaw, and Ratbat, acting basically like pure animals loyal to their masters but with little-to-no actual free will or higher cognitive functions of their own.

The only real exceptions to the rule of those with "Master" in their name being tied to the planet of the same name in JG1 are the Powered Masters (whose name origin wasn't ever really explained besides "it just sounds cool" from Takara's IRL end), and the Action Masters (whose forms originate from Nucleon, but this can be chalked up to Takara simply reusing the same name that Hasbro used whether it makes since in-universe or not).

Though, Micromasters are different kettle of fish. In Japan, they were called "Micro Transformers", so they never had "-master" in their name. That is, until the reissue line from 2002 called Transformers: Micromaster, in which the six-combiners from Operation Combination were referred to as "Micromasters" while the individual components were still called "Micro Transformers". Though, there does exist a tenuous link between the "Micromasters" of this line and the inhabitants of Planet Master. The Micro Transformers of this line were said to have originally been a kind of small-sized non-transforming civilian Cybertronian called a "Seiberdroid" (Ask Vector Prime later canonized "Cyberdroid" as the Western equivalent of "Seiberdroid", so I'll be using "Cyberdroid" from here onward). One of the Kiss Players timelines later retconned the inhabitants of Planet Master who fled Cybertron as refugees to have originally been Cyberdroids since they too were small-sized non-transforming civilian Cybertronians. So in a sense, the Micro Transformers of Transformers: Micromaster who can combine to form six-combiners called Micromasters were originally the same kind of Cybertronian species as the inhabitants of Planet Master. Phew!



Turning into animals instead of humanoids distinguishes them enough from all the 'masters, I would think.
One would think, but Lione, Toraizer and Shuffler are all Headmasters who have animal forms instead of humanoid ones, but I guess they've also been depicted as intelligent enough to be fully cognitive beings whereas the Breast Animals are more like drone-like beasts.



I assumed it was to match with the Dinoforce from the same series?
At first glance, one might think so, along with the Multiforce, too. But, Victory did something weird with these three "forces". They called the Breastforce as such, as ブレストフォース (Buresutofōsu), but for both the Dinoforce and Multiforce, they varied things up a bit. Instead of calling them ダイノフォース (Dainofōsu) and マルチフォース (Maruchifōsu) like one might expect, they instead called the Multiforce the マルチ戦隊 (Maruchi Sentai, meaning "Multi Squadron") and the Dinoforce the 恐竜戦隊 (Kyōryū Sentai, meaning "Dinosaur Squadron"), going full Japanese with those two teams instead, with the names "Dinoforce" and "Multiforce" only being written on their toy packaging material despite never actually being said in Japanese.



Does Piranacon count as a Targetmaster? The sixth member isn't really binary bonded, he's just Nautilator because he's useless a spare.
I think the "Targetmaster" name was only used for the Seacons in western media, so the JG1 rules wouldn't apply in their case.
 

lastmaximal

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In JG1, those with the "-master" suffix tend to have their unique technology either originate from or have ties to Planet Master in some form.

Ah there we go.

Yeah even as a younger fan this never struck me as "of course, Japan", more a foreign-language thing (and, as unluckiness points out, it makes more sense coming from "breastplate" anyway). The only real use of it in a "huh huh huh huh, you said breast" sense I've ever seen is from The English-speaking Side Of The Fandom Who Should Really Know Better.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Yeah even as a younger fan this never struck me as "of course, Japan", more a foreign-language thing (and, as unluckiness points out, it makes more sense coming from "breastplate" anyway). The only real use of it in a "huh huh huh huh, you said breast" sense I've ever seen is from The English-speaking Side Of The Fandom Who Should Really Know Better.
Yeah Japan doesn't get all of the same innuendos that we have in English... because they already have all their own innuendos that we plebeian westerners don't get. :p
 


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